Should Jewish schools teach shop?

southernbubby

Mon, Dec 08 2014, 10:57 pm

My older daughter used to go with my husband every year for Take Your Daughter to Work day. Her school was not thrilled. My husband is a hospital based OB-GYN, and my daughter wore a scrub dress and they gave her the job of foot holder while the laboring mothers pushed. She was a teenager and thought it was cool but some of the staff at the school felt it was too much outside world.

Personally, I say, take your child to work and let them see what happens. See if the plumber will give them an opportunity to observe or the auto mechanic.

youngishbear

Tue, Dec 09 2014, 1:47 am

The most important thing though is to offer vocational choices to students.

What's the point in forcing kids to take woodworking? I for one would refuse to touch a chainsaw.

But providing lots of options (and qualified teachers for each) will be expensive.

Can our schools afford it without raising tuition?

Dolly Welsh

Tue, Dec 09 2014, 2:07 am

No worries, YB, nobody but grown, strong, skilled people ever touch chainsaws, and some of them won't, either.

What you mean is: power tools.

Without that, there is a still a lot to learn with manual tools that is very useful.

And it is not bad to learn how to use power equipment safely too.

Ruchel

Tue, Dec 09 2014, 6:06 am

For many, school is about academic and intellectuality (and/or learning a trade).
Life skills need to come from parents. I would be slightly (!) annoyed to pay for a school using hours teaching such things.

Yet again, OUAT my grandmom learned cooking and sewing at school. Boys learned mechanics or smthg. Yup. I wouldn't be fine with that. Already prefer everyone learning the same or a choice.

LittleDucky

Tue, Dec 09 2014, 11:34 am

I wish they taught it. So many students can't boil an egg, make pasta or other cooking basics. Boys need to learn it too! Same with a screwdriver- how are we to put together the next generation of IKEA without that knowledge? I am not comfortable with power tools and hate it. Wish I was. But I can build almost any IKEA furniture I have come across. Smile

One semester of each is vital.

nylon

Tue, Dec 09 2014, 11:48 am

I took home ec and shop in junior high (public) and to be honest they were not that helpful and didn't really inform future career choices for most of us. By far the biggest influence on what kids go on to do is what they have modeled for them. If they know plumbers and mechanics--they will be more inclined to explore those choices.

Setting up a shop facility isn't cheap. Many public schools are mothballing them because of the cost.

Also, what subjects do you suggest be cut in favor of vocational training? At many schools, English subjects are compressed already (even in MO schools) and I can't think of any Orthodox school that would shorten limudei kodesh for this. It could be more of an option for post-HS, a yeshiva that has a vocational component, because then they have completed their secular requirements. But that won't happen in 10th grade.

nyer1

Tue, Dec 09 2014, 11:50 am

Ruchel wrote:

so what do you propose is done with a child who isn't very academically inclined or intellectual? they should just sit and sink deeper and deeper while the rest of the class passes by, while this student loses self esteem and hates school and yeshiva every day, and maybe even hating yiddishkeit as a result? how is that helpful? why not give all kids some other outlet to express themselves and to learn, rather than in the 'traditional way' which surely doesn't work for everyone? we should just ignore that kid? we should just say YOU MUST LEARN THIS WAY? I don't know from what generation you're from, or if you have any experience with education in the current sense of the word, but many students learn differently, and many students, if they have even just half an hour each day of something a little bit more hands on will have the ability to SUCCEED… possibly in other classes as well.

Barbara

Tue, Dec 09 2014, 11:59 am

debsey wrote:

I WISH. I have a son who is so talented with his hands, I wish he'd have an hour a day to really excel.......Not gonna happen in Lakewood in my lifetime, though.

There are Jewish, kosher versions of Habitat for Humanity. Would it be acceptable for him to participate in something like that for part of the summer?

questioner

Tue, Dec 09 2014, 12:04 pm

southernbubby wrote:

I hope that the laboring mothers were asked if it was OK with them!

Volunteer

Tue, Dec 09 2014, 12:10 pm

nylon wrote:

You definitely have a point about the monetary investment needed to teach a good shop class. It's absolutely an issue. I still think it's worth it, though, because it is so valuable. I believe that if all students are given a chance to excel at something, everyone benefits. Also, students sit around and listen to teachers for very long periods each day. Giving them a change of scene with a different kind of activity (one that's more physical, especially) will help everyone learn better all day. We all need to switch gears every so often. It increases the brain's efficiency, so the other classes can get more done in less time. I know it sounds unbelievable, but that has been my experience as a teacher (not to mention that research confirms this phenomenon).

Ruchel

Tue, Dec 09 2014, 3:05 pm

nyer1 wrote:

I answered your questions in my first post. You sure show anger without reading.
Oh and yes you have no idea who I am Smile

nyer1

Tue, Dec 09 2014, 3:12 pm

Ruchel wrote:

I answered your questions in my first post. You sure show anger without reading.
Oh and yes you have no idea who I am Smile

anger? really? that's so far from the type of person I am, and maybe you are misreading my capital letters as screaming, which it's not, in which case I apologize. it was meant to bring emphasis.

my background, I feel, leads me to have different views than most in our community. I'm a BT, went to public school, went to university at a top tier school and I'm currently in my PhD for an education related field. I'm all about forward thinking, experimental learning, hands on experiences and improving education for all types of learners. so when people are against 'shop' or the arts or other ways or venues of learning rather than the traditional 'academic' or 'intellectual' way, it disappoints me. it disappoints me because so many times, the frum community is behind the times with education. people sometimes wonder why so many of our jewish youth are slipping through the cracks - I firmly feel it's because our teachers in yeshivot and day schools are not well enough educated or trained in teaching themselves, and there isn't enough differentiation the way teachers elsewhere are trained to do. teaching shop, home ec, music, dance, sewing, cooking etc etc would be an amazing differentiation for many of our kids.

again, I wasn't yelling, didn't mean to offend, but this is something I feel passionately about

Dolly Welsh

Tue, Dec 09 2014, 3:21 pm

The kids could be taken out of the school building, to a nearby place, that had shop machinery set up. They would be shown a bit about it, and given turns on it.

That place might be a local Jewish owned business.

It might be private Jewish home, that had equipment in the garage.

A school trip, but not only one time.

Nothing complicated, just some exposure.

Some kids would be more interested that others. Some of the more interested ones might eventually get jobs in the business or industry. Connections would be made.

Even a kid who never used the tools would do better, later, when working with a contractor. The kid would not be completely unfamiliar with what the contractor does.

southernbubby

Tue, Dec 09 2014, 3:26 pm

Dolly Welsh wrote:

Great ideas! One of my son-in-laws is very handy with electronics and works in computers. He has taught my grandson how to build his own battery operated machines. The child wires them and connects them and gets them to work. These kids need tools for life.