mechanchim that believe push child up if academically child

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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling

Mechanchim that believe push child up if academically child

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amother

Tue, Dec 09 2014, 1:32 pm

Can anyone please help me. I would like to spek to different mechanchim and experts about my child. He is extremely advanced academically but he is an end of November child and I wanted to learn the positive reasons for pushing a child up vs. leaving them behind for a year. I'm concerned about boredom in the classroom and being not challenged equals behavioral issues.

I would love to speak to experts or primary teachers that taught for quite some years so that I can hear about their personal experiences in the classroom.

If anyone can help me I would really appreciate it.

Thanks so much

amother

Tue, Dec 09 2014, 1:35 pm

my child was pushed ahead
he continued to be a a student
he was not happy being the smallest kid in his class
the worst was when he was in high school

catonmylap

Tue, Dec 09 2014, 1:54 pm

If you live where the cut off is December 31, why would you hold back an academically gifted child? This is not pushing ahead, it's putting them where they belong age-wise...

amother

Tue, Dec 09 2014, 1:57 pm

I agree but the problem is schools try to scare you that socially its not good for them. That's why I would love to speak to educators or mechanchim who have experience in December kids and has seen them graduate and holds that it's good for a child.
Mid anyone has any phone numbers I would appreciate it.

Chayalle

Tue, Dec 09 2014, 1:59 pm

I have more than one sibling that was pushed ahead because they were academically gifted. Those days (like more than 30 years ago) pushing ahead was in vogue, not like today where everyone is keeping their kids back.

My brother was bullied. Big time bullying. He continued to excel academically, but his social life was tough. He ended up switching schools and did better in the second school, where the kids didn't know that he had skipped.

My sister had hardly a social life in high school. Everyone knew she was the brilliant geek who was more than a year younger than anyone else.

I'm the next child, born just past the deadline. I stayed back, and am forever grateful.

amother

Tue, Dec 09 2014, 2:35 pm

I'm not talking about pushing ahead im talking about a November child who is very bright.

amother

Tue, Dec 09 2014, 2:36 pm

I mean pushed ahead -- by having a early dec birthday and he could have stayed back a year

Ruchel

Tue, Dec 09 2014, 3:15 pm

You'll hear all opinions.
The only reason I graduated hs was because I was pushed ahead. I couldn't deal with boredom and immature schoolmates. It was HORRIBLE.

Chayalle

Tue, Dec 09 2014, 3:17 pm

What's his personality like? Can he handle being the youngest socially? Is he a strong personality? Does he make friends easily? Can he stick up for himself?

Think ahead - past kindergarten, to the tough pre-teen years.

amother

Tue, Dec 09 2014, 3:46 pm

Where are you located? I personally recommend speaking to Rav Noach Orloweck here in EY.

amother

Tue, Dec 09 2014, 4:30 pm

I'm located in the states but I don't mind calling him. Will he take phone calls and how do I get his number. He used to teach me years ago in seminary. He is very good.

amother

Tue, Dec 09 2014, 6:28 pm

Child is youngest so is very used to always playing with older children. Child is very bright and makes a lot of trouble when bored. My concern is behavioral issues due to boredom if I leave him behind. I would love to speak to a mechanech that has been doing this for years that has seen both sides and can tell me what he thinks. Or an evaluator.

amother

Tue, Dec 09 2014, 8:18 pm

My husband skipped a grade in elementary school - he was really bright and totally bored. It was social suicide. Academically, he continued to be straight As, but socially, he was smaller and he hadn't "come up" with his class and wasn't part of their chevra. Things didn't really get much better for him until Junior/Senior year of high school when he got to be as big as his classmates and started participating in sports. He was socially awkward even when I met him though, and I think the years of bullying he endured contributed to that. It totally wasn't worth saving a year for all the social damage he went through. Happiness is key for a child.

amother

Tue, Dec 09 2014, 8:23 pm

Continued amother from above- our son is also really bright, and we didn't skip him, but he just made the deadline and we decided to send him when he was officially eligible instead of holding him back a year - also a big mistake. He basically went through the same thing as my husband - straight As, but smaller and more immature. He was bullied terribly and lost a lot of self confidence. Again, like my husband, he turned into a big guy in the middle of high school and things turned around socially - he also matured the match the guys who were 9 months-12 months older than him in some cases (I mean socially and emotionally, not just physically). If I could do it again, I would have sent him to school the following year and kept him in a half day nursery program another year.

mommyhood

Tue, Dec 09 2014, 8:23 pm

I am not an educator but I am a mother who kept my end of year birthday kid in the right grade. My child has several other kids that are born at the end of the year in her class and from speaking to the other mothers and my child's teacher/director they're doing very well.
If you feel your child is ready I would put them in the right grade. You can always have them repeat kindergarten or pre-1a if it's really not working.

amother

Tue, Dec 09 2014, 10:26 pm

A lot of times smart people are socially clueless and that has nothing to do with skipping a grade. Another whose husband skipped a grade did your dh really have friends before he skipped a grade? Part of the reason why he probably skipped a grade is because he wasn't doing well socially.

Dolly Welsh

Tue, Dec 09 2014, 11:06 pm

A gentle soul, who sweetly goes along with the program, just needs his own space a lot, but doesn't actively rebel, or become irritable, keep that one back. He can handle being bored with the younger ones, because he will do extra material and do extra work on his own, if it is made available to him. With tutors. (Be very sure to offer enrichment unasked, because he is too nice to ask for anything.) However, he would be picked on among the older ones, and will not be able to handle himself assertively with older kids. They are larger and more socially advanced.

A restless, independent-minded, assertive type, who will indeed become irritable and actively rebel, push that one ahead. He will hold his own with the older ones. And this one might bolt completely, and make real trouble, if bored.

So it's all about the personality. Assertive or gentle?

Assertive, push ahead.
Gentle, keep back.

But I am no educator or shrink at all. Just my humble opinion.

TwinsMommy

Tue, Dec 09 2014, 11:27 pm

this thread is helpful for me. One of my kids is about to turn 8 and in 2nd grade-- he's EXTREEEEMELY 2E. Too autistic to handle a Jewish day school even with a one on one aide, but able to be mainstreamed in public school with LOTS of intervention specialist support, social skills pullouts, OT, speech, adapted phys ed........ but officially identified as gifted, insanely high IQ, and I've been asked 3 times now to skip a grade. I've been pushing off the decision and am finally starting to feel more open to it because I agreed to grade accelerate just in one subject and that's going very well (he's responsible for 2nd grade math tests, but he's doing fifth grade through ninth grade math during math time (one on one with the intervention specialist). I was worried about the social aspects but the social gap between him and typical kids is getting so much wider so quickly now that he's getting older--- he's still socially a 3-4 year old and his classmates are 7-8. So.... what's the difference, socially, if I put him with older kids--- at least they'll be more academically compatible. It's not like he's having friendships anyway--- kids accept him and help him, but.....

So the IEP team and I are meeting with the head of gifted for the district in the spring. *IF* we skip 3rd grade, he might go straight to the gifted program at another school which begins in 4th grade or I wonder if another option is to skip him to 4th grade in his current school and not officially put him in a gifted program yet. we'll see.

Dolly Welsh described my kid--- A restless, independent-minded, assertive type, who will indeed become irritable and actively rebel------ everytime he doesn't like what's going on in class, he screams. He screams for 20 minutes to an hour every school day. He screams to get away from boring repetition. He screams to escape. He screams because of too much sensory input (a large class is hard for him, but a small special needs class won't necessarily meet his academic needs). And yes we have an FBA/BIP on him and a rocking IEP--- but I'm more and more convinced now that the grade he should be in age wise really isn't his grade.

Interestingly, if we do skip him---- he's got a twin who is most likely not to skip--- she MIGHT do the gifted testing at some point but I'm not being pushed on it--- she's not insanely ahead like he is. So I'll have twins in 2 diff grades.

Thanks for a helpful discussion!

amother

Tue, Dec 09 2014, 11:32 pm

Op here I know that I would like to push my child ahead since he is aggressive as it is but I would like to speak to someone about it to get reassurance that I am doing the right thing. Does anyone have any recommendations that they can recommend that I can speak to that is pro not leaving behind?

Dolly Welsh

Wed, Dec 10 2014, 12:37 am

I guess some children need extra services, or extra attention, or extra instruction, or extra stimulation, or even LESS stimulation, and more intimate settings.

The institutions have to aim for the most, and the average.

But there will always be kids who do not quite fit.

Just as one can be between shoe sizes. 7 is too small and 7 1/2 is too big.

They do not quite fit their year. They do not quite fit the instruction pace, the amount of stimulation. Some will need less, and some will need more.

Please do something about the boy who screams every day! He needs something else. You seem to know what.

It's a toughie, but people are not cookie-cutter, and we really ALL homeschool, in little supplementary ways.

Supplementing here, pulling back emphasis there. Because the kid is human.

This is not an assembly line of identical bottles of beer being filled as they neatly roll by.

It is simply human to fall between dress sizes or shirt sizes! That's all this is.

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