HOW DO THEY AFFORD IT?

amother

Wed, Dec 24 2014, 11:29 pm

My husband works in klei kodesh and I teach part time. Combined we make less than $5000 a month. We have 4 kids 0-7.

We purchased or house through NACA. I thank Hashem every day for this amazing organization. We also got first time buyers assistance from the city we live in. Research both of these options, OP, you'd be surprised how doable buying a house is.

We have a 2013 Sienna (not an Odyssey, but darn close) which we got from a frum dealer who specializes in used cars with cosmetic imperfections. We shopped around for loan options and were able to finance at 2.25%. We borrowed a bit from my in laws for the car to make monthly payments more manageable, but not a huge amount.

We have no debt other than our mortgage and car loan.

We have a bugaboo (frog) that a wealthy relative gave as a gift when our oldest was born.

We pay full tuition.

We pay taxes on all of our earnings.

We get WIC, because our Rav says that you should if you can so you never feel like you can't give your children the foods they need. No food stamps, though.

OP, and everyone else, please don't judge people because they seem to have things they shouldn't be able to afford. We do extensive research before making any big purchase and often end up paying a fraction of what you think these things cost. Some things we get as gifts, and some things we have decided, after much deliberation, are cheaper to have than not to have.

Remember also that everyone's life is a package deal. If you want my house and my car and my shaitel you have to take all of my tzuris along with it.

Barbara

Thu, Dec 25 2014, 12:00 am

imorethanamother wrote:

Here's the thing. Everyone likes to trot out the "she pulled out her food stamps card! And she is so wealthy!" I use a food stamps card. It's what they send everyone who's on welfare or food stamps or. . .MATERNITY LEAVE. Or disability. Let's not judge.

The US government does not provide assistance to families simply because the mother is on maternity leave. Food stamps (and WIC) is a needs based program. Period. Some people on maternity leave qualify for food stamps. Most don't. If you're using food stamps, it's because you applied, and demonstrated that you were within the income limits

Nothing wrong with that.

There are people who live in expensive houses and own expensive strollers and cars, then fall on hard times. They need short term help. They shouldn't be expected to divest themselves of all assets to look poor enough to suit others.

But as to OP's question, their parents help, or they have a trust fund. You don't get approved for a mortgage based on wedding money and food stamps. You've got to show ability to pay.

luppamom

Thu, Dec 25 2014, 8:03 am

You know what's interesting? This judgement you're passing sounds like the same thing many Israelis think about Americans. Not saying all Israelis, but many of them think we are well off b/c we have nice strollers, nice clothes and our families in chu"l must be rich! For many of us, this is far from true as it's hard to find employment w/o speaking the lang., many of us don't have family here and have high Shabbos and YT expenses, not to mention a lot of us don't have parents paying for our rent/mortgage. But, when they see the chitzonius that looks "rich", they make that assumption! Our strollers cost half the price in America, the same w/ our clothes and the rest of our stuff, but they don't understand that.

amother

Thu, Dec 25 2014, 9:17 am

amother wrote:

I know a Kollel wife who works from home and makes a very good living, enough to pay full tution, buy fancy designer stuff and live in a really nice big house. But her job is Internet based and its a big secret because they don't want anyone to know that they have the Internet in their home. Of course, the computer is locked away in her office, and only she knows the password, etc. But if anyone knew they even had an Internet connection it would be terrible for their reputation.

How do you know if it's such a big secret?

This is so strange. most kollel communities I know of even if dont' encourage internet for recreation/shopping, DO allow it for work for men and women. Unless it's the Israel charedi kollel community. They're way more strict.
but it doesn't sound like Israel because you said full tuition, house, etc..

Sanguine

Thu, Dec 25 2014, 9:47 am

Whenever a petty thread like this comes up (or the same old tuition one again), I'm so glad I live in Israel. Everyone here is poor. We mange to eat. We manage to live. But we're not constantly checking what the neighbors buy and how. Life is much less materialistic here. People drive their cars till they die (the car, not the person), or they get one from work. No question of How. If you work for a better company you can get a car. People in the same neighborhood have similar homes. Now, here's the trick. Young couple rent and then buy a very very small apartment. When they need bigger they move to a cheaper neighborhood. A one bedroom apartment in Yerushalayim is equal to a six bedroom house in the Shomron!

So those are some tricks in Israel. Both people in the couple work (good trick?) I have no idea how my neighbors "afford it" and they have no idea how we "afford it". I'm not jealous of their car or their house or their bugaboo (whatever that is). I have a roof over my head. We have a car that usually moves. And I really don't need a bugaboo.

We're all happy. We enjoy life. The phrase "Eizehu Ashir? HaSameach B'Chelko" really fits life in Israel and it has nothing to do with a car or a house.

amother

Thu, Dec 25 2014, 9:51 am

amother wrote:

Here we go again.....
All this bashing and mocking stems from jealousy.
What exactly is the point of this thread?
Why don't you just go ask them how they afford their home, car, bugaboo?

I'm not the OP but I don't see the OP mocking or bashing. She can see others around her who she percieves to be living a better and less stressful life than her, in spite of not having obviously lucrative careers.

OP would like such a lifestyle for herself so she is trying to find out whether it would be possible by asking how other people do it.

The point of this thread is for people to share ideas that might help the OP.

It is not socially acceptable to ask someone in person how they afford certain things but it is OK on a website because you are not asking a person directly and people can decide whether to reply anonymously or not at all...

amother

Thu, Dec 25 2014, 9:55 am

Sanguine wrote:

In Israel you don't need to ask how do they afford it because Israelis tend to be more open about finances and ask more personal questions that Americans wouldn't ask. So you know exactly how your Israel neighbor afforded her house because she told you.

luppamom

Thu, Dec 25 2014, 9:57 am

Sanguine wrote:

I totally agree w/ you. In OOT Israeli communities (at least the ones I've been in) ppl are much more quiet about their money. It is almost considered embarrassing to openly display wealth. I love it! There is no competition. We have no Shwartzes the Jones' rich Jewish family friend) to keep up w/. and we can very open w/ each other about how to save money and vent about our financial troubles!

amother

Thu, Dec 25 2014, 9:58 am

amother wrote:

We live similarly to this with taxes and no programs etc. We are very smart shoppers/savers/spenders. I dont own a house but we have saved enough for a down payment. Houses cost 700k+ where I live so we are trying to increase income so we can pay the mortgage.
I dont own a bugaboo but own a uppababy (bought for a fraction of the cost on craigslist and it was used less than a month ).
We are financing a 2014 honda. We sold our accord for 12000 as soon as it was paid off and won 7500k for a 2 year car lease in a chinese auction that we put towards the purchase of a minivan... our car payments on minivan are even less than accord because our interest rate went down...
So you never know how or why anyone has what they do. Hashem can make 2 people have the same amount of money and they just live differently with different lives... some families need 2 cars. We dont. I walk to work. Some families have to pay for health insurance and others don't.
Maybe Hashem "stretches" their income because they are in kollel.
Maybe they get alot of financial support every month, which you arent getting...
Its not just about how much income a couple makes. I have friends with huge medical or infertility bills. My food bill is higher than most due to kids with multiple allergies...
Theres so many answers and the best thing is not to compare your life to anyone elses... you will be so much happier.

chocolate moose

Thu, Dec 25 2014, 10:04 am

In America, maternity leave entitles you to disability pay, which is not only not taxed, but they don't take social security etc out of it before you get your check so when you do your taxes, that $500 check isn't even that amount, you owe like 30% of it to the Feds.

It's not a good idea to look at what other people have. It's not going to make you happy. Spend what you can afford and be happy.

If you want to, ask a friend how she manages. For example, I have a lot of beautiful exercise clothes. I was asked about them, and I told them - some of them are free, some are used, and others are kiddie sized which are cheap. Maybe this friend budgets really well. But if you want to know how the other half live so well, don't agonize over it. Ask!

amother

Thu, Dec 25 2014, 10:08 am

Sanguine wrote:

Did you read this part of OP's post?

Quote:

My husband is working his butt off in Dental school and I'm working, and we're barely making ends meet

She has no money now cause her goal is to be the richest people around when DH finishes dental school. Don't worry OP - You married well. Some day you'll drive the newest car and live in the biggest house.

Not necessarily true. She may still be unhappy as there will always be people who can afford more than she has. There will be more successful dentists etc. etc... She would be better off taking the advice of not comparing herself to others...

nylon

Thu, Dec 25 2014, 10:11 am

First - having an iPhone or a Bugaboo while using food stamps is an old trope. People fall on hard times. People get gifts. Not all states count assets for SNAP. So owning a paid for physical object is really the least of it.

whenever people criticize what seems to be a financial trend there are always stories from someone of how they manage. None of it changes the basic reality: The numbers don't add up, overall, and the stories cannot account for everyone. I don't know or need to know exactly how every individual is doing. That's not my business. But collectively, there is a problem.

"I just got a loan from my in-laws"? You got help. That's what it is. I don't begrudge it but acknowledge it. Just because it's not ongoing every month, doesn't not make it help. You got a lease? You have credit and income to show. "It's only $275"--you need to be able to qualify for that payment. You got good rates, you've got a history of borrowing money and paying it back. "We got an FHA mortgage"--you still had at least 3.5% + closing costs to put down, you can pay the PMI on it. "we own a small house"--you can pay the taxes on it, no joke anywhere in NY/NJ. The real poor people in this country have none of these things.

No, you may not be defrauding the government. But there is some way you are making up that gap. It's not unusual to wonder when people's outgoings exceed their incomings. Israel has a lower material standard, but it's widely known that the same problem exists there. (And I can tell you of plenty of apparently upper middle class people with nice jobs whose finances are built on sand--it's just a little harder to see because you can't easily tell if someone is making $180K and paying for it all vs. making $150K and borrowing the difference.)

If you have a SNAP card your income is below a certain level for your family size. That's how you get it. If I got pregnant now I would get nothing from the gov't because the US does not provide anything at all just because you are having a baby.

Most people do not manage to be in a bracket where they can both pay full tuition and yet make little enough to qualify for WIC (income of $51K pretax for a family of 5). Perhaps you're exceptionally frugal, perhaps your tuition is exceptionally low--I'm not asking the previous amother. But you have to admit, that is not a common combination.