HOW DO THEY AFFORD IT?

nylon

Thu, Dec 25 2014, 10:19 am

chocolate moose wrote:

In America, maternity leave entitles you to disability pay, which is not only not taxed, but they don't take social security etc out of it before you get your check so when you do your taxes, that $500 check isn't even that amount, you owe like 30% of it to the Feds.

Only a few states (I know of NY, NJ, and CA) have statewide programs that expand the short term disability program to women who have given birth. In many states, STD coverage is not even required. Private STD may or may not cover pregnancy depending. In my state, if you have STD, it must cover pregnancy, but employers are not required to provide it.

BTW, only 50% of American women qualify for protected unpaid leave under FMLA.

amother

Thu, Dec 25 2014, 10:24 am

Plenty of people can't actually afford the things they have. Someone once asked my dh to borrow money. My husband said no, I'm really tight.

This guy lives in a nice house, drives a fancy car etc. and he can't afford it. He needs the loan to keep up with the Joneses. He told my husband if his wife ever found out that he needed money he would be so embarrassed.

My husband says to me - yeah I have the money to lend, but I'm not even living on his standards. Let him downsize and then if he really needs money I'll be glad to give him.

Barbara

Thu, Dec 25 2014, 10:42 am

chocolate moose wrote:

It would be nice if that were true, but it's not.

Quote:

A handful of states -- California, Hawaii, New Jersey, New York, and Rhode Island -- have state-mandated short-term disability programs. In these states, employees may be eligible for benefits if they are temporarily unable to work due to a disability, including pregnancy. These benefits are usually paid from a state fund, which comes from payroll withholding.

Although the eligibility requirements, benefit amounts, and duration of benefits vary from state to state, the parameters of the programs are similar. An employee must file a claim for benefits, supported by a statement from a physician regarding the employee's condition. If the claim is approved, the employee receives a percentage of his or her usual wages (55 to 60% is common) while the employee is unable to work.

These programs do not provide for parental leave once you are able to return to work. However, California and New Jersey have paid parental leave programs that are run through the state disability insurance office. The benefits are similar to those allowed for disability leave, but both states pay benefits for only six weeks of parenting leave. A similar program has been enacted in Washington state, but it has been suspended through 2015 due to budget shortfalls.

So there's no federal disability, very limited state disability in just a couple of states, and no food stamps.

Hashem_Yaazor

Thu, Dec 25 2014, 10:56 am

So my Sienna is an 06, but we got it at the end of 07, when the 08s were coming out. So it was sort of late model at the time. We got it used, and we waited till it dropped down in price significantly and we paid it out in full through inheritance money, so we had no loan or monthly payments on it.

We did not buy a house till this summer but we bought a house that is cheaper than what you can get on the east coast. Down payment was from savings we had invested (money we had saved since we were growing up), and mortgage is comparable to a rental, if not cheaper.

But our monthly income is very low relative to our family size, so maybe we would be judged by someone like OP. We report everything though, no working off the books. I don't think it can just be assumed that that happens.

amother

Thu, Dec 25 2014, 11:22 am

I could have been one of the people you saw.

1. My husband leases an up to date mini van because the KOLLEL PAYS HIM FOR IT. He drives all the men back and forth every day. Half hour ride.

2. My bugaboo was a gift from my MIL. (Side note: when you have a large family it pays to invest in a good stroller. When you're having two children, you can survive with a cheaper brand. Yes, the bugaboo is great quality. I have a few children and it still looks great.)

3. We bought a small apartment. My FIL refinanced and kindly lent us the money

You never know. Don't judge.

CantBe

Thu, Dec 25 2014, 11:27 am

amother wrote:

OP, that's life. Life isn't all equal. See, amother here got things from DH's job, MIL, FIL. That's how life works. Maybe you should live in a communist country so no one else gets more than you.

cookiejar

Thu, Dec 25 2014, 12:35 pm

Sanguine wrote:

Did you read this part of OP's post?

Quote:

My husband is working his butt off in Dental school and I'm working, and we're barely making ends meet

She has no money now cause her goal is to be the richest people around when DH finishes dental school. Don't worry OP - You married well. Some day you'll drive the newest car and live in the biggest house.

That comes off as rather nasty

amother

Thu, Dec 25 2014, 1:00 pm

Funny ....we got a 2013 car when we were literally PENNILESS!! Our bank accounts were in the negative. We owed credit cards .... and had no car and no money to buy one. We couldn't even buy an old, used car - that's how poor we were. And then.. we found out that for around $200 (a month) we get get a brand new car (leased)! So...$200 we figured somehow we could come up with but not a few thousand dollars for a used car! I hope that explains why some people drive new cars ...because they are too poor to buy an old one! BTW - our monthly car payments are ALWAYS late. And we get phone calls all the time reminding us to make payments (for everything..)

OP - you can't really know what is going on in everyone's life and everyone's bank account. But just beware that there are all sorts of situations and you really never know! The main thing is that everyone should be healthy and live with peace of mind --- and that's a BIG thing to pray for!!

JAWSCIENCE

Thu, Dec 25 2014, 1:53 pm

Sanguine wrote:

Well, she's the one so interested in her neighbor's finances. I'm glad I'm not her neighbor now and have to explain how we paid for our car. And I'm glad I won't be her neighbor when her husband is a dentist and she's showing off her big house, new car and bugaboo.

Why do you assume she married a guy in dental school because she thinks he will make lots of money as a dentist and she will show off when he graduates? Your assumption is offensive and assumes she's nothing but a shallow gold digger all because she wonders why she is struggling financially when others are not. Equally offensive is the assumption raised by others in this thread that anyone who has anything nice is defrauding the government or in debt.

You seem very offended by her question about how people seem to be able to afford more than she has. Your advice for her to keep her nose in her closet is good, but your phrasing is very harsh and makes it a personal attack against her character and her marriage. There is a thread almost identical to this posted roughly once every month. It is usually a young married who just can't seem to fathom why other people seem to be doing better financially than they are. The older/more mature politely tell them to mind their own wallet/driveway/stroller. Time teaches us all and it will teach OP this lesson too. There is no reason to assume she wants to be the richest person in the room just because she added the detail that her husband is a dentist. It is hard when you see others doing better than you in an area and have no explanation for why (be it sports, schoolwork, finances, chinuch of their kids). Eventually you learn you are better off focusing on being the best you can be, but it's a mature perspective and difficult for even tzadikim. The fact that this very question gets asked on imamother so often is proof that it is a midah many are working on, not just the wives of dentists. Cut her a little slack.

amother

Thu, Dec 25 2014, 2:00 pm

Sanguine wrote:

Whenever a petty thread like this comes up (or the same old tuition one again), I'm so glad I live in Israel. Everyone here is poor. We mange to eat. We manage to live. But we're not constantly checking what the neighbors buy and how. Life is much less materialistic here. People drive their cars till they die (the car, not the person), or they get one from work. No question of How. If you work for a better company you can get a car. People in the same neighborhood have similar homes. Now, here's the trick. Young couple rent and then buy a very very small apartment. When they need bigger they move to a cheaper neighborhood. A one bedroom apartment in Yerushalayim is equal to a six bedroom house in the Shomron!

So those are some tricks in Israel. Both people in the couple work (good trick?) I have no idea how my neighbors "afford it" and they have no idea how we "afford it". I'm not jealous of their car or their house or their bugaboo (whatever that is). I have a roof over my head. We have a car that usually moves. And I really don't need a bugaboo.

We're all happy. We enjoy life. The phrase "Eizehu Ashir? HaSameach B'Chelko" really fits life in Israel and it has nothing to do with a car or a house.

Righttttt. Your Israel and my Israel are very different. Where I live there are only Israelis- no anglos (almost). All the young couples around us own new apartments, new cars and very expensive sheitels and clothes. They get it mostly from their parents. Thats the thing to do here. They compare constantly.
I am happy for them- no problem, but Israel isn't all unmaterialistic perfect world.

Sanguine

Thu, Dec 25 2014, 2:05 pm

Isn't it obvious to her that if her husband is in dental school, some day they will have money but right now they're going to struggle both financially and free time he has. The other couples she sees, both work. Even the men in Kollel earn something somehow (I don't know details) while her husband is just costing but someday he'll earn a lot more than those other people. She'll have the house and car that she wants. Much bigger. Isn't it obvious to her why she doesn't have what other people have?

amother

Thu, Dec 25 2014, 2:06 pm

My husband is in klei kodesh, and I am no rich lawyer.

We are poor. Well, bh we are paying for our expenses somehow, but its always paycheck to paycheck.

We just bought a house. We couldn't afford rent anymore, and after the down payment (which we borrowed from a relative) our mortgage is cheaper than our rent. And no, we would never get approved for a mortgage. Again, another family member CO-SIGNED. No one gave us a red cent to keep.

We have an old car that was given to us, and a spanking new 2015 van. Guess what- we cant afford to buy a car! We had to lease one. And buying a used car we also cant afford, besides for the repairs. Again, needed another co-signer. The lease comes out to less than 300 dollars a month- which somehow we will pay but still less than financing an older car.

We pay our own tuition, our own clothes, etc. No Chanukah presents from the parents giving us thousands of dollars, nothing. My parents don't have money and his do not give. This is life. We work two different jobs, each, just to be able to earn enough to live.

Maybe we look like we have money. But we don't. At all.

MaBelleVie

Thu, Dec 25 2014, 2:07 pm

amother wrote:

I agree. And there are plenty of wealthy Anglo neighborhoods as well, where you have to be a millionaire to buy those houses and cars, and there is lots of keeping up with the Cohen's. Really odd to pretend that everyone is Israel is poor.

luppamom

Thu, Dec 25 2014, 2:16 pm

MaBelleVie wrote:

It depends on the area. What you wrote above might be true in wealthier areas, but not all areas are wealthy. IME, OOT Israel (sorry can't specify area or I'd have to go amother) people live very simply. Most of the Israelis don't have cars and if they do, they're at least 10 yrs. old and beaten up. They don't live in the city even though many of them grew up there b/c they (or their parents) can't afford the mortgage or the rent. I rarely saw anyone living luxuriously.

JAWSCIENCE

Thu, Dec 25 2014, 2:20 pm

Sanguine wrote:

I know nothing about her neighbors and as she has given not much detail on them I would assume she doesn't either. Some kolel's pay, others don't. Some kolel wives do not work etc. etc. This is why the advice for her to mind her own finances is indeed very good advice.

I was asking more about the part where you said she will be showing off her stroller etc. when her husband gets rich (not a guaranteed future BTW). Or that she wants a huge house and stroller to show them off. Why assume that about her? Maybe she will learn from this experience that being overtly ostentatious can hurt others with less.

MaBelleVie

Thu, Dec 25 2014, 2:22 pm

luppamom wrote:

Of course. That's why I specified "wealthy Anglo neighborhoods."

MagentaYenta

Thu, Dec 25 2014, 2:35 pm

'In America, maternity leave entitles you to disability pay.' This is true if you live in a state that has state disability and their insurer recognizes pregnancy as a disability. Some states do not have state disability and one must buy a private policy for long and short term disability. Then you need to ensure that that policy covers pregnancy as a disability.

My family left the rat race of consumerism many years go, it worked for us, it wouldn't work for everyone.

Sanguine

Thu, Dec 25 2014, 3:12 pm

luppamom wrote:

Quote:

MaBelleVie wrote:

Of course. That's why I specified "wealthy Anglo neighborhoods."

My neighborhood is OOT and full of Anglos too. It's just very down to earth. Most people have cars (maybe not very young couples). You really need a car here. Some people have more money but we all live down to earth. No one pays for one of those new expensive camps cause no one else goes. The kids join to help raise money to subsidize the kids who can't afford things like Bnei Akiva camp in the summer (less than a week in the woods), trip to Poland... The kids here don't participate in national Bnei Akiva activities that seem too expensive for a lot of the kids. Instead of the people with less money always trying to keep up, the people with more money always keep down. We have Israelis and Anglos here and the Israelis never feel like they're missing what the Anglos have