Which school to send my daughter to

oceana3

Tue, Dec 30 2014, 9:43 pm

We're a modern, traditional family. I'm a doctor as well as a mom. I want my 2 year old daughter to also become a professional one day, in addition to an observant Jew. I'm about to send her to school and I want her to be able to stay in one school system from pre-k through high school, ideally. We live in Flatbush, right around the corner from Yeshiva of Flatbush. I've heard good things about the school and we're planning to send our daughter there in September. Does anybody have any thoughts on this?

1. Is YOF the best modern orthodox school in the area? I heard Maagen David is good, but we're Ashkenazi and MD is apparently Sephardic only.

2. Is the education competitive with Bronx Science and Stuyvesant, etc? Our rabbi said definitely send her to yeshiva, but make sure it's a very, very good Yeshiva with a very strong secular program, not a lousy one that only offers a good religious education and leaves kids barely able to write in English. I asked him which are the best pre-k through 12 yeshivas and he said other than Ramaz in Manhattan he's really not sure. I want a religious education for my daughter but I also want her to get into a top graduate school one day.

Thank you!

morah

Tue, Dec 30 2014, 9:53 pm

Definitely YOF for now. Excellent secular studies, and they also focus very heavily on Hebrew language, so she will come out fluent in Hebrew (this is not a given with most other Jewish day schools, unfortunately). Ramaz is excellent as well as is SAR, but Ramaz is in Manhattan and SAR is in Riverdale. However, these are options should you end up moving- you don't know for sure that you're going to be in Brooklyn for the next 15 years. So go with Flatbush now, and know should you move or want to switch for whatever other reason, you have some comparable options.

monseychick

Tue, Dec 30 2014, 9:59 pm

Its a long commute,but Frisch is a top notch place.

morah

Tue, Dec 30 2014, 10:02 pm

monseychick wrote:

Its a long commute,but Frisch is a top notch place.

Frisch is only a high school, we're talking about a preschooler here.

iluvy

Tue, Dec 30 2014, 11:48 pm

I don't know much about modern schools, but you seem worried about your daughter's future, and I just wanted to say that in my experience you don't need to worry so much about your daughter's school, especially if you've given her good genes and plan to give her good enrichment at home. I went to a bais yaakov which has relatively good secular studies, but nothing compared to the real prep schools, and I went to a top grad school in the sciences; so did many of my bais yaakov friends.

Fabulous

Wed, Dec 31 2014, 12:32 am

I know someone who teaches in the high school and this was her take: A lot of the kids and parents are indifferent to education BUT the opportunities for growth and excellent education are all there. For those students and parents that care, the education is amazing. Again, this is her take on the high school.

amother

Wed, Dec 31 2014, 2:19 am

oceana3 wrote:

I have a lot of the same tendencies as you, so I'm saying this from the point of view of experience.

Chill. Seriously chill.

You're going to make yourself and your daughter crazy if you go on like this.

Your child is 2. She's not coloring in the lines yet, and you're worried about whether her nursery school is going to put her on par with Stuyvesant. Worse yet, you're worried about graduate school. Without knowing whether she's going to be on that level academically. Or want that in life. At age 3, DS1's favorite thing on earth was writing -- writing lists, writing names, just writing. He was starting to read. He loved books. At age 6, he was diagnosed with serious learning differences. At age 11, he was struggling in school. Getting him to read more than the label on a cereal box was a struggle. At age 15, he pulled it together and became a decent, but not stellar student.

The cold, hard reality is that no Jewish day school of any ilk is going to provide your child the secular educational opportunities of, say, Horace Mann, or even of Stuyvesant. They can't, because they're devoting half the day to Jewish studies. If that has value to you and your kids, you live with it. If it doesn't, well, then you don't. Or any combination based on the reality on the ground when your child gets there.

Someone mentioned SAR. When this year's freshmen were your daughter's age, the high school didn't exist. Now it's sending kids to Harvard, Penn, Princeton, and a host of other top universities. And the secular education is still not as good as Horace Mann.

On the flip side, I went to a top 5 university and the top grad school in my field. I was recently talking to a colleague who attended a top 5 grad school about the surprising number of classmates we each had from 3d tier universities.

So honestly, her nursery school isn't going to determine where she gets her PhD.

I say this from love, from the other end, with teens. I worried about how that 5th grade C was going to impact college choices. I made myself crazy. I didn't enjoy their childhood the way I should. I annoyed the kids. And none of it mattered.

Chill. Pick the best school for her now, based on the information you have now. Be prepared to change schools if it doesn't work out for you. Or for her. Enjoy the box made out of Popsicle sticks that she's going to bring home, and the macaroni necklace. Grad school will sort itself out in a couple of decades.

oceana3

Wed, Dec 31 2014, 11:01 am

Thank you all. I have a lot more clarity now. One more related question... how challenging is the curriculum, period? Whether it is the religious or secular part of the day, how strongly are the kids challenged academically? Are the teachers themselves motivated, educated, professionals? I realize it sounds like a silly question because the school has such a good reputation, but I believe in doing my own independent research and that includes asking you folks here, some of whom are quite knowledgeable and insightful.

morah

Wed, Dec 31 2014, 11:22 am

All of these schools require their teachers to have a masters, and many have PhD's (though it's not required). They also undergo rigorous professional development. As to the students, you have to remember that while they are selective to an extent, they are still serving the Jewish community, so they don't exclusively cater to the best and the brightest. While I wouldn't send a child with significant learning difficulties to these schools (with the exception of SAR), I can't promise your child will never encounter unmotivated students, because they do try to cater to a range. But the academics are very strong on both sides, and there is a strong emphasis on pursuing higher education.

oceana3

Wed, Dec 31 2014, 11:29 am

Makes a lot of sense. Thank you.

nylon

Wed, Dec 31 2014, 4:46 pm

It's also worth remembering that Horace Mann, Stuyvesant, etc have such amazing standards because they don't have a wider range of abilities (Horace Mann a touch more, but Stuyvesant is purely exam results)--they cater exclusively to high achievers. You don't even know if your child would be of that level at this point, and it can be very academic and pressured.

A fairer comparison would be between a Ramaz/SAR type school and a high quality, affluent suburban public school: generally bright, motivated students, but a range of kids. Generally, in that respect they do fairly well. The standards are high, but they do not have the numbers to offer all the options that, say, Scarsdale or Great Neck could do.

IMO there aren't many Brooklyn schools at all that seem to be a fit with you philosophically. Flatbush would work. I have heard there is a newer "Open Orthodox" school but don't know any more.

amother

Wed, Dec 31 2014, 6:15 pm

Have you thought about yeshiva bitachon/yeshiva of belle harbor?

oceana3

Wed, Dec 31 2014, 7:17 pm

Not really. Last I heard Yeshiva of Belle Harbor was demolished by Hurricane Sandy. Otherwise I don't know anything about it. Is there a reason to?

sequoia

Wed, Dec 31 2014, 7:22 pm

How is Ramaz not on the same level as Chapin, Brearley, Collegiate, Horace Mann, St Ann, Trinity, etc? What's worse about it?

oceana3

Wed, Dec 31 2014, 7:45 pm

Yeah... my husband went to school in Great Neck and in worse Long Island public schools before that. The education was about the same as far as he's concerned. It was all the same state-mandated curriculum. The big difference was the culture.
Great Neck had a more educated culture which made it better. But it is also a far-left culture and we cannot accept our kids being taught that God's Torah is a storybook to be compared to Shakespeare and Hemingway. Our chief reason for wanting to send our daughter to YOF is the treasury of Jewish culture and absolute values it instills. An education without that isn't very rewarding, is it? After reading all the discussion on this board I'm quite confident that YOF, which is next to our house, is a good choice. I would think you put in the effort to graduate at the top of your class from YOF and you can do anything you want to do in the secular world. I really appreciate all of your advice and have an easy fast.

monseychick

Wed, Dec 31 2014, 7:47 pm

FWIW..... YNJ is the only Jewish school in NY/NJ to have a blue ribbon from the Federal Dept of Education.. In a money mag article , it scored on the top ten schools in NJ from Public/Priv/Parochial schools..

amother

Wed, Dec 31 2014, 7:56 pm

Yeshiva of bell harbor moved to faltbush and changed their name to yeshiva bitachon to reflect the journey they had been on since hurricane sandy. The reason why I brought it up was because its also a MO Ashkenazi school in Flatbush and there academic standard is supposedly very high.

oceana3

Wed, Dec 31 2014, 7:59 pm

Do you agree with the standards they're using to make that determination? I've learned that rankings are only valid, no matter how prestigious the ranker is, if the criteria makes sense for the person who is reading the rankings. Oftentimes there are factors which I feel should be weighted very differently.

monseychick wrote:

oceana3

Wed, Dec 31 2014, 8:01 pm

Oh ok. Interesting. Thanks for letting me know. You have a lot of posts, btw.

amother wrote:

zigi

Wed, Dec 31 2014, 8:12 pm

my cousins went to yeshivish schools and are both drs. one of my cousins is female. so there are schools that teach a solid secular education even though its not the top tier mo schools.