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SUCH A KVETCH!!!!!!!!!!!!
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amother


 

Post Tue, Dec 30 2014, 11:35 pm
I'm literally venting when posting this

my 5 1/2 year old son is SUCH A KVETCH!!!!!!!!!!! it's literally touching me by now! hes a smart child with alot of personality, but when he is with me, he ONLY KVETCHES!!! if he wants to eat, he whines, if he wants to sleep, he whines, if he wants anything, its only in a whining tone that grates your nerves. I love him dearly and try sooo hard not to scream or lash out at him even I feel like doing just that. I am generally so patient and try to explain to him in a nice way that mommy cant hear what ur saying when u kvetch, but it doesnt help (maybe for 15 min) He's generally a unhappy kid, I could buy him the most expensive toy, tell him interesting stories, give him all he wants, but hes still not happy- he always wants the other thing....
For example, I baked delicious cake that he wanted to taste- granted I gave him a nice piece, then he said "but you always give me such a small piece, I want more.... or, I wanted that other cream cake you have in freezer, why didnt you give me that one! you get the pic......

I dont know who to turn to, I'm desperate at this point to try anything, any advice that has worked for you, or even talk to some parenting coach...

please share your experience how to work with such a child, and also, how to remain intact when dealing with such kids.
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Dolly Welsh




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 31 2014, 12:40 am
Ew.

Something's going on here.

First of all, you are rewarding it.

Just pretend it's an adult. There is one truth for all, large and small, in some ways.

WHAT GETS RESULTS YOU WILL SEE MORE OF.

Sorry to shout. But ignoring what you don't like, and responding to what you do like, nicely, is the usual way to train any critter large or small.

You don't have to talk all the time. You have a right to remain silent.

If a question is asked you that does not compute for you, ignore it.

Like the one about "why don't you..."

Huh?

What do you mean, why?

You are exactly who, to ask me why I do something?

Excuuuuse me? I report to you now?

Say nothing.

When called by a panther, don't anther, says an old joke. Learn silence! It's strong.

I think he needs to see more of men, especially his father. They don't go in for this kind of thing.

No, don't scream. That's weak. Silence is strong.

Stop buying his approval. Stop being afraid.

You sound like a good baker. Mmm. You are fine already. He has an excellent mother and can't complain.
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 31 2014, 12:49 am
1. Stop responding to whining. Period. It's amazing how kids don't bother to do things that don't get any results.

2. I teach my DD to rephrase positively. If she says "My cake is too small!" that needs to change to "Mommy, can I please have a bigger piece?" And the answer could still be no (and often is, if it's about bigger cake. But other things I try to say yes as much as possible; she seems needy enough why make her feel more deprived Confused ) but at least the exchange was pleasant. And she's learning not to over-focus on what she doesn't like, at least I hope so because we're not quite there yet.


Last edited by seeker on Wed, Dec 31 2014, 1:27 am; edited 1 time in total
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ldg




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 31 2014, 12:54 am
Someone recommended 123 Magic when my kid whined a lot and would tantrum if he didn't get what he wanted. It really helped a lot. You might be able to borrow the video from from the library.
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Dolly Welsh




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 31 2014, 1:25 am
It seems to be on You Tube but I know nothing about it.
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oliveoil




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 31 2014, 1:27 am
Does he have siblings?
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Bitachon101




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 31 2014, 1:38 am
seeker wrote:
1. Stop responding to whining. Period. It's amazing how kids don't bother to do things that don't get any results.



Not always.
My ds 3 will keep going with his kvetches even when I ignore.....
He'll push and push and push till I'm ready to explode.
I also rephrase things and sometimes a look is enough to make him rephrase but if he in kvetch mode its impossible like OP dealing with.
U can lose ur sanity from it.
Hope we all make it thru in one piece Wink
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 31 2014, 1:48 am
Bitachon101 wrote:
Not always.
My ds 3 will keep going with his kvetches even when I ignore.....
He'll push and push and push till I'm ready to explode.
I also rephrase things and sometimes a look is enough to make him rephrase but if he in kvetch mode its impossible like OP dealing with.
U can lose ur sanity from it.
Hope we all make it thru in one piece Wink

See, you just said it yourself - "even when I ignore." This means you are not always ignoring kvetching. If it sometimes gets a response, then it's worth continuing to try. But if he learns that kvetching NEVER works, then eventually he will rarely try it. Totally ignoring may be too much, but saying once, blandly, "I am ready when you talk respectfully" should be enough to cue him without rewarding the kvetch.
3 is young though. You need to make sure to teach replacement behaviors before ignoring will work, because he is evidently trying to have some need met. Sometimes kvetching means tired or thirsty or needs bathroom, in which case sending child to drink/use bathroom/etc is the most effective thing to do. Still not the same as rewarding the kvetch with a direct response, though - "Use the bathroom and then we'll talk"
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Dolly Welsh




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 31 2014, 1:55 am
But there you are still talking to the kid.

What if you ignored the kid.

A kid can be given what he REALLY needs, so he had his needs met, and knows THAT they WILL be met, and other matters can be ignored or cut off short.

We are very verbal people, and we are with children all day. This might sometimes make us talk to them like they are people.

Well of course they are people, but they are only small children and no, they don't get all their questions answered, except on our terms.

I even wonder if we long for mature company, and actually make them into, or teach them to be, older than they are. The way Tom Hanks talked to the volleyball. He needed a friend and made one. (Movie reference.)

If that's nuts, I apologize.

One does a child no favors at all, to allow him to be an unbearable person. We owe him to make him into a person people feel cheerful about perceiving in the distance.

It must be "oh, look, there's so and so. Cool."

Not, "oh G-d, there's so and so. Oy."

And those patterns are set early.

Do not allow children to really, importantly, enrage or disgust you. Whatever it takes.

Because, if you do, then out of sheer misery and anxiety they may go on being like that, because by that time, they are justifiably mad at you. And anyway, by that time, that's all they know. It's their language. Anything else is as alien as Fidji.

Sometimes it's sensory. A miserable whiny kid may need to be tickled, or thrown in the air, or played Airplane with.

Or you could sing. Just tickle and burst into song.

But don't let it go on bad. Break the pattern.
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 31 2014, 2:49 am
OK then, this is going to be one of those fun times when we totally disagree. I don't think point-blank ignoring is necessary or helpful. I think it's disrespectful and invalidating. We're talking about a tiny little child here who still has a lot to learn, but even adults would feel hurt if totally ignored. You don't want to be the one causing that kind of hurt to a child who is still developing their sense of self and relationship to you. You can ignore the kvetching without ignoring the kid. Obviously a kvetching episode is not the time for oodles of love and attention, but a simple, curt "We'll deal with this when you're calm" does not engage the kvetch but does acknowledge the child and let them know that you are aware that they're saying something but will not respond to it the way they're saying it. Giving them respect and acknowledgement without tolerating bad behavior will not make them into unbearable people. Ignoring a child who is sensitive might lead to bigger problems in the future.

I'd say for a small child, they could have a small prompt (could even be with your eyes/facial expression, no words) after one kvetch to remind them to rephrase, and a warning/consequence if the kvetching persists ("The way you're talking is not respectful. If it continues you will have to leave the room until you are ready to apologize and talk nicely.") This is of course provided the child has already been trained and knows how to talk respectfully in the first place - if they don't, you will first need to engage more to help them learn. Neither of these provides attention or reinforcement to the kvetching behavior. There's no engagement or interaction.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 31 2014, 3:54 am
This whole series of books is AWESOME! It's working wonders for my whiny tween:

http://www.loveandlogic.com

http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UT.....fuz_b

I would have given anything to know about the early childhood books in this series when DD was younger. She was an extremely difficult 4yo. It's a miracle we both survived.
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amother


 

Post Wed, Dec 31 2014, 10:18 am
I want to throw something out there, as a mom with slightly older kids:

If you are consistent about "I'm sorry, but I can't hear you when you whine/kvetch" AND redirecting (as suggested above), and you're not seeing that much improvement, it might be that your son has a more "serious" developmental issue.

One of my sons was (better, but still is) kind of a kvetch. All the redirecting and other techniques helped only minimally. At one point, I got so fed up with the whining I dragged him to a psychologist. He was diagnosed with ADHD, mood disorder (a code word for minor depression)...etc.. Once he is mature enough, he will be starting Cognitive Behavioral Therapy.

My cousins kid had a similar situation (runs in our family). She is a bit older and did beautifully with a 6 month course of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy.

Hatzlacha.

This post is anonymous, but if you want to PM me, Hashem Yaazor will tell you my screen name.
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worknights1313




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 31 2014, 11:26 am
I have one of these. He kvetched and moaned about everything. Thank goodness, he is also so sweet and cute. We sometimes would just start laughing when he started up. "Why are we walking so far? My legs hurt...I am tired..I don't like onions.. etc etc" Endless. I found that reframing my thoughts helped. I anticipated a lot of it, and it helped me smile. He's older now, and he doesn't do it very often, thank goodness. Is there any way you can tell yourself how gorgeous he is, and funny, rather than let it anger and frustrate you? Just a little change of perspective can help you figure out how to respond to him compassionately.
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worknights1313




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 31 2014, 11:28 am
I will add that this kid is not a cheerful one. He is more serious. Each child is different, it doesn't mean he has something wrong with him. He has happy moments, too.
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worknights1313




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 31 2014, 11:32 am
double

Last edited by worknights1313 on Thu, Jan 01 2015, 9:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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Hashem_Yaazor




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 31 2014, 11:45 am
To add to all the wonderful suggestions up there, try helping him with his attitude in general -- not specifically related to these behavioral issues, but as a bedtime routine or at the supper table, work with him to think of 3 or 5 positive things that happened that day. Let him start seeing his life as a positive thing, and not focusing on all the negative. The glass half full or half empty type of attitude.
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Laughing Bag!




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 31 2014, 11:52 am
amother wrote:
I'm literally venting when posting this

my 5 1/2 year old son is SUCH A KVETCH!!!!!!!!!!! it's literally touching me by now! hes a smart child with alot of personality, but when he is with me, he ONLY KVETCHES!!! if he wants to eat, he whines, if he wants to sleep, he whines, if he wants anything, its only in a whining tone that grates your nerves. I love him dearly and try sooo hard not to scream or lash out at him even I feel like doing just that. I am generally so patient and try to explain to him in a nice way that mommy cant hear what ur saying when u kvetch, but it doesnt help (maybe for 15 min) He's generally a unhappy kid, I could buy him the most expensive toy, tell him interesting stories, give him all he wants, but hes still not happy- he always wants the other thing....
For example, I baked delicious cake that he wanted to taste- granted I gave him a nice piece, then he said "but you always give me such a small piece, I want more.... or, I wanted that other cream cake you have in freezer, why didnt you give me that one! you get the pic......

I dont know who to turn to, I'm desperate at this point to try anything, any advice that has worked for you, or even talk to some parenting coach...

please share your experience how to work with such a child, and also, how to remain intact when dealing with such kids.


I don't know who you are but I though you are my shadow describing my 5 1/2 year old dd to the last detail.
There is however not one right answer. But one thing is for sure its hard not to get pulled into the cycle. You need to be the one to stay in control and it is VERY hard. I struggle every day but I try taking it one day at a time. I do get a lot of good advice from my sister but its so hard for me to write it all down. The basic rule is to talk in a 'calm' tone to said child and say how you can understand when spoken to but don't repeat yourself and ignore the whining and kvetching. Its easier said than done that is why I actually called my sister this morning telling her to make sure I stay sane at the end of the day.
I wish you good luck and will be following this thread for some good needed extra advice and ideas that I might be ableto use with my own kid.
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Laughing Bag!




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 31 2014, 12:07 pm
seeker wrote:
1. Stop responding to whining. Period. It's amazing how kids don't bother to do things that don't get any results.

2. I teach my DD to rephrase positively. If she says "My cake is too small!" that needs to change to "Mommy, can I please have a bigger piece?" And the answer could still be no (and often is, if it's about bigger cake. But other things I try to say yes as much as possible; she seems needy enough why make her feel more deprived Confused ) but at least the exchange was pleasant. And she's learning not to over-focus on what she doesn't like, at least I hope so because we're not quite there yet.


Seeker It seems that you either don't have a child that 'Is A KVETCH' or you are by nature a very strong CALM person. You seem to have the right advice but do you really understand how it feels to Live with a kvetchy child Idk. Like in my house when dd walks in everyone knows.I can't say she Always kvetches. She has her days or times that she doesn't but 90% of the time she does and it can drive you insane. So yeah refrasing can take 20 minutes here and she 'almost' missed her bus but I didn't care because I had a purpose. Bh she made it and went with a smile and calm. But I was halfway drained and sometimes it just takes longer and harder.
So again it ain't easy and it isn't a fix it thing. Its a long process. Not in vain do they say that children are the best teachers. They teach us self control, patience, communication... 😃


Last edited by Laughing Bag! on Wed, Dec 31 2014, 12:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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sitting




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 31 2014, 12:38 pm
Two things I do in my house that work and may help u.
1. When u moan I dont want to be with u so pls move away from me...or try - when u moan I dont want to be with u so im going in my room for a few min and when I come out I hope u will have stopped and be ready to spk in a big boy voice.
2. The other thinf is to show him half a cup of juice and ask if its half full or half empty. I teach my kids from a young age the concept of looking at things negatively or positively.
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Dolly Welsh




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 31 2014, 5:33 pm
Maybe such a kid needs more to do with his hands. Maybe he needs more autonomy.

I once actually saw a mother ask her kid what he wanted for breakfast. This bemused me entirely. Kids can't make decisions like that. It makes them anxious. I trust you don't do anything like that, OP, like asking which pajamas he wants, or which this or which that. Just give him what he ought to have and be done with it.

Back in the day, I put a breakfast in front of the kid, sat down and happily ate the same food myself, and enjoyed the spectacle of a hungry kid eating away. I have never asked a child what he wants to eat in my life. If a kid didn't want to eat something, that was always fine, however. But it didn't happen, really. We eat very simply around here. People in general tolerate cut green beans and carrots well.

That kid is fine today, and makes decisions as a husband and father very well.

There are also kids who sound as if they know what they are saying, but they are just parroting words. They have very little idea what they are saying; but they are verbal, and love using words for the feel of them, and they love making the sounds.

You don't have to respond to every literal thing; it's not an adult talking.

Onions? No, nobody likes onions. I also don't eat onions, not plain by themselves. Ew. Onions.

It might all be code for "I'm tired" or "I'm lonely" or "I'm bored stiff".

Many a child will be quiet if you just give him a book. A different book from last time.

There should always be books and toys lying around that are too hard, and even way too hard, beyond his present level. That way, he has something to reach for. It stimulates him, and keeps him interested in life.

And, you can't know when he will reach that level. So it's good if the stuff is in place, ready for him. He has no way of asking you for more advanced tools and materials.

Just leave it lying around. Let him find it himself. Then naively ask him "what's that about?" Let him explain it, importantly, very much in charge, to YOU. YOU be the student. Let him be the teacher, the wise one.

The kid was Mad Scientist and I was Faithful Assistant. That's very empowering to the kid.

They like what doesn't have your fingerprints all over it. They want to own it themselves.
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