Solving The Chareidi men on planes' problem...

Sanguine

Mon, Jan 05 2015, 2:55 am

Yes, it's a problem. Israel isn't ready to insist their national airline observes religious law. Well Saudi Arabia is!! Don't you wish you lived in a religious state??

Saudi Arabia's national airline to introduce gender segregation after a string of complaints from male passengers

Quote:

Follows complaints from male fliers over men sitting next to their wives
Airline will include instructions to flight booking staff at Gulf airports
Saudi Arabia is known for its gender segregation in public places

Saudi Arabia's national airline is allegedly planning to separate male and female passengers on its flights, in accordance to strict rules enforced by the Gulf kingdom.
Gulf media report that Saudia will keep men and women segregated onboard, unless they are close relatives.
The move follows a spate of complaints from male fliers unwilling to allow other males to sit next to their wives and other female family members.

Complaints were also recently made when male passengers claimed a flight attendant was being too 'flirty'.
'There are solutions to this problem…we will soon enforce rules that will satisfy all passengers,' Saudia assistant manager for marketing Abdul Rahman Al Fahd, told Saudi daily, Ajel.
It is thought that the airline will include instructions to flight booking staff at Gulf airports to keep these new rules in place.

The carrier's policies are already in tune to the strict Islamic practices of Saudi Arabia: no alcoholic beverages or pork dishes are served onboard, a prayer of verse from the Quran is read before take off, and many international flights have a designated men's prayer area.
In addition, Saudia does not employ Saudi women as cabin crew, opting to recruit women from other countries such as Pakistan, the Philippines, Albania and Bosnia instead.
But moves are being made to employ females on the ground in November, the airline opened its fourth women's section staffed by entirely by females at its office in the Murooj district of Saudi capital, Riyadh.

The country is known for its gender segregation, with women requiring a male guardian approval to travel or work outside of the home.
In public spaces such as restaurants, beaches, amusement parks or banks, women are required to enter and exit through special doors.

Women who are seen socialising with a man who is not a relative can even be charged with committing adultery, fornication or prostitution.

The majority of Gulf operated airlines abide by Islamic laws, but vary over strictness.
For example United Emirates carrier, Etihad's new A380 aircraft includes a prayer area in Business class, but the new cabin crew uniform, launched last month, does not feature a veil.

Chief Commercial Officer, Peter Baumgartner, told MailOnline Travel: ‘Modern Arabia is what is going on in Abu Dhabi, we are inspired by what’s going on in the rest of the world, but through the lens of the local DNA.

Quote:

SAUDIA AIRLINE'S STRICT INFLIGHT RULES
There are no alcoholic beverages or pork dishes are served on board.
A prayer of verse from the Quran is read before take off, and many international flights have a designated men's prayer area.
The airline does not employ Saudi women as cabin crew, opting to recruit women from other countries such as Pakistan, the Philippines, Albania and Bosnia instead.

FranticFrummie

Mon, Jan 05 2015, 3:22 am

I don't have a problem with a Jewish version of this.

The only thing I would add is a restriction on women wearing a gallon of cheap perfume. Puke

DrMom

Mon, Jan 05 2015, 3:26 am

They can just fly Saudi Air... unless they want to travel to E"Y...

Seriously, there are better solutions. If there are enough interested passengers, they can charter their own flight. Or men can buy tickets with other men and just request to be seated next to their travel partner. Perhaps they can go through an agent who buys blocks of tickets for men and other blocks for women.

luppamom

Mon, Jan 05 2015, 3:30 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

I don't have a problem with a Jewish version of this.

The only thing I would add is a restriction on women wearing a gallon of cheap perfume. Puke

Me too. But, w/ an option to sit mixed as well. I don't think I could manage flying w/ a baby w/o DH right there. But, if I were a nidda or DH wasn't there, I would way prefer to sit next to a women. I have a friend who had this big huge guy fall asleep on her. It was an accident, but ew! I also would feel much less guilty getting up to use the bathroom a bunch of times if I were in the middle. I feel like most men just don't get why we need the bathroom so much!

FranticFrummie

Mon, Jan 05 2015, 4:06 am

luppamom wrote:

They did mention that there was an option for related, mixed gender seating. If I had an opposite gender child, I wouldn't want him sitting next to some strange guy without me being right there.

Sanguine

Mon, Jan 05 2015, 4:26 am

And what do you think of this

Quote:

The airline does not employ Saudi women as cabin crew, opting to recruit women from other countries such as Pakistan, the Philippines, Albania and Bosnia instead.

"Go--yim are for practice"? Very Happy

Here in Israel we try to respect the different levels of Dat but Jews don't believe in forcing religion on people. Radical Islam does

Sanguine

Mon, Jan 05 2015, 4:29 am

DrMom wrote:

Perhaps they can go through an agent who buys blocks of tickets for men and other blocks for women.

I keep saying this. Some smart agent should call himself a Kosher travel agent and have men only blocks of tickets. But just let him try charging more than you can get by yourself online Wink

Heyaaa

Mon, Jan 05 2015, 4:31 am

Quote:

Women who are seen socialising with a man who is not a relative can even be charged with committing adultery, fornication or prostitution.

That's insane. Definitely not who we should view as our role models. Also aren't adulterers given the death penalty?

Sanguine

Mon, Jan 05 2015, 5:22 am

Heyaaa wrote:

Quote:

Women who are seen socialising with a man who is not a relative can even be charged with committing adultery, fornication or prostitution.

That's insane. Definitely not who we should view as our role models. Also aren't adulterers given the death penalty?

Hmmm maybe we don't want a religious state

myself

Mon, Jan 05 2015, 5:35 am

Honestly, reading all this makes me want to Banging head

FranticFrummie

Mon, Jan 05 2015, 5:57 am

Sanguine wrote:

Hmmm maybe we don't want a religious state

That is why I specified a "Jewish version" of this. Of course we're not going to go around stoning people to death because they are seen in a cafe together! Rolling Eyes

Back to the airline issues, as long as women are not banned from first class and business sections, I am not seeing a big problem with this. (They may have to put more bathrooms on the women's side, though!) LOL

Imagine how wonderful it would be, if you were traveling without DH, and you had a baby with you. You could sit with other women who had babies, or with bubbies, and shmooze throughout the whole flight.

Try doing that with some crabby business man who's giving you the stink eye the whole time, and doesn't want to move his laptop every time you need to get out of your seat. Never mind the whole "nursing in public" conundrum.

tigerwife

Mon, Jan 05 2015, 6:13 am

Since most of these chareidim likely closely follow a Rebbe, the Rebbe should give instructions such as
-The importance of Kiddush HaSh-m. If this is too difficult, please charter a private plane, or simply stay home.
-Bring several seforim along, to keep your eyes occupied instead of ch"v seeing a woman.
-Be as polite as possible to the stewardesses at all costs. Yes, even if you have to make eye contact (gasp). AFAIK, stewardesses are dressed modestly.
-Travel in groups of three, and request to be seated together in one row.
-Request a window seat, put on an eye mask, and pop some Ambien. Try to fall asleep against the window and not on the poor traveler on the other side.

Though I wonder, if someone tried to open a segregated airline- how popular would it really be?

Sanguine

Mon, Jan 05 2015, 6:15 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

That is why I specified a "Jewish version" of this. Of course we're not going to go around stoning people to death because they are seen in a cafe together! Rolling Eyes

Who will decide the Jewish version. Can I wear short sleeves on the plane? Sandals without socks? Some hair showing? Will there be movies available? May my 3 year old son sit with me in the lady's section? I don't think Judaism was supposed to be a book of uncompromising rules. We accept all Jews even if they're not our religious level. And... We even accept non-Jews (on our planes - not as spouses)

Sanguine

Mon, Jan 05 2015, 6:18 am

tigerwife wrote:

Though I wonder, if someone tried to open a segregated airline- how popular would it really be?

The men would be fine. The ladies would have all the kids

ally

Mon, Jan 05 2015, 6:26 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

That is why I specified a "Jewish version" of this. Of course we're not going to go around stoning people to death because they are seen in a cafe together! Rolling Eyes

It doesn't sound wonderful to me at all. Why would I want to be separated from my husband and look after *OUR* child on my own? I have zero interest in sitting with other women and their babies.
I also have no conundrum about nursing in public. Just because society has decided breasts are purely s-xual, does not mean I have to feel shame about nourishing my child in the way we were created.

Seriously, where is OJ going when Saudi Arabia becomes our role model?

tigerwife

Mon, Jan 05 2015, 6:32 am

ally wrote:

It doesn't sound wonderful to me at all. Why would I want to be separated from my husband and look after *OUR* child on my own? I have zero interest in sitting with other women and their babies.

Exactly. The only people who probably wouldn't mind are those who travel alone. I can't see this working with families, a group that makes up a large percentage of travelers. And what about business people going on a conference together, or something like that? It would be really annoying being separated for a long flight.

tweek

Mon, Jan 05 2015, 8:34 am

It is well known that the earlier bobover Rebbe, Reb Shlomo of Bobov used to duck when getting in and out of his seat on the plane so as not to block any passengers who were watching the movie!

Just wanted to throw that fun fact in here!

monseychick

Mon, Jan 05 2015, 9:29 am

I have a better idea, maybe all the nutcases can move to Saudi Arabia permanently..

I wonder what would happen if they start burning dumpsters there...

marina

Mon, Jan 05 2015, 1:02 pm

tweek wrote:

why is basic politeness notable in this context?

vintagebknyc

Mon, Jan 05 2015, 1:52 pm

sorry, false. from http://www.saudiairlines.com:

SAUDIA has denied a press report carried by the social media that it was going to introduce gender segregation on its flights.

“We would like to emphasize that no SAUDIA official has made any statement on gender segregation,” said an informed source at the airline.

Referring to the statement issued by Mr. Abdul Rahman Al-Fahd, VP Marketing, on December 30, 2014, the source said it was a reply given by him through his personal Twitter account to one of his Twitter followers.

That individual had pointed out that the issue of seat arrangement for families required solution as his flight delayed 15 minutes because of it.

In reply to that Mr. Al-Fahd said: “We have introduced some solutions this week and we are awaiting its result.” Some Arab and foreign media websites to wrongly interpreted this reply to report that SAUDIA was planning segregation.

It is worth mentioning that the airline’s website allow families to select nearby seats for their members while booking. Some passengers may not get this facility if they did not select seats or made late reservations.

“This may result in family members not getting seats away from one another,” the source said, adding that cabin crewmembers try their best to solve such problems quickly without causing flight delays.