Empire chicken with OU not kosher (or not kosher enough)?

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amother

Thu, Jan 15 2015, 4:29 pm

water_bear88 wrote:

Just to clarify, I'll eat what I'm served in others' homes so long as I believe they keep kosher. But there are DL (including Chardal) rabbanim who will eat the regular Rabbanut hechsher themselves, and implying that there are different "levels" of kashrut is in and of itself problematically hashkaifically. Food is either kosher or it isn't. "Not accepted under my minhag avot" is not equal to "not kosher". If my Temani friend cooks locusts, and her rav says that's ok, the fact that my rav doesn't allow me to eat them doesn't mean he's saying they're actually not kosher. I just don't have the minhag to eat them. Seeking out chumrot beyond what you were raised with (assuming you were raised frum) does not make you a better Jew or mean you're eating "more kosher".

I knew this would get political! That's the issue w/ a lot of hechsherim- a lot of it is politics. It's hard to know what's really good or not b/c of this and it's very frusterating! I believe strongly in minhagim. There are different types of shchita etc. What I heard matters the most is the level of organization the kashrus organization has. They can use every chumra in the book, but if they aren't on top of it, it means nothing! Chumras don't make a person a better Jew, but they often go hand-and-hand w/ more supervision which does make something more Kosher in the sense that the ingredients are all checked and things aren't falling through the cracks.

Anyway, I hate judging and political stuff (I knew this would go that direction.) I was just pointing out that a person can eat OU in America and Israel is very different than the Rabbanut, which has the huge responsibility of ensuring that most of Israel eats Kosher.

Maya

Thu, Jan 15 2015, 4:53 pm

A large percentage of Chassidish people won't eat any food item that has only the OU hechsher, let alone chicken or meat.

amother

Thu, Jan 15 2015, 5:08 pm

DrMom wrote:

I don't think there are any "universally accepted hechshers".

So true, my brother does not eat any processed food except perhaps olive oil. All the rest is cooked in his home from scratch.

Maya

Thu, Jan 15 2015, 5:09 pm

amother wrote:

So true, my brother does not eat any processed food except perhaps olive oil. All the rest is cooked in his home from scratch.

Does he cook everything, or does he make his wife do all that work?

Barbara

Thu, Jan 15 2015, 5:27 pm

amother wrote:

So true, my brother does not eat any processed food except perhaps olive oil. All the rest is cooked in his home from scratch.

I'm trying to figure out what that means.

Would he consider flour to be a processed food? Oatmeal? Sugar? Spices? Does he make his own wine and grape juice?

finallyamommy

Thu, Jan 15 2015, 7:23 pm

smss wrote:

pretty sure badatz eidah hachareidis is the only universally accepted hechsher...and who knows, maybe someone will correct me on even that one LOL

I have no idea what the problem is, but for sure not everyone eats OU.

Nope. DH has a friend who is Sephardi whose rabbonim hold that Eida beef is not okay. I know to only serve chicken when he comes for Shabbos. Also, I have heard that some people in EY (Chabadniks I think?) won't eat Eida shchita, and have a special chassidish shchita that they hold by for meat.

It's sad, cause I used to think that too - that Eida was universally accepted - and we are slowly trying to switch over to it because I want everyone to be able to eat in my house.

Oh, and to someone else who posted - I'm not the amother you quoted, but my rav makes his own grape juice/wine, in part for kashrus reasons, so I know that is a thing.

nylon

Thu, Jan 15 2015, 7:31 pm

The Rabbanut allows kulot that the OU does not, as I understand it. In addition the rule for the Rabbanut is that for a basic Rabbanut hechsher they must accept from any other Rabbanut. The goal of the regular Rabbanut hechsher is to ensure breadth of access, to make the largest number of things meet an acceptable minimum standard. That is not the case for the OU (or comparable hechsherim).

The OU is a solid hechsher. It is not the most stringent. In kashrut there is no "best". There is reliable, and there is stringent. Reliable means that they have clearly defined standards and uphold them and this is just as important as stringency. Empire chicken does have KAJ as well as OU but if your relatives only eat chassidishe shechita it's still a problem. But this is not "not kosher" or "not kosher enough" or even "not reliably kosher" (as would be the case with a hechsher that does not maintain adequate supervision): It is "does not follow my personal standard of kashrut".

Chassidishe people may not eat any packaged item with only an OU... but I have been told (reliably) that chassidishe hechsherim do rely on the OU for supervision of some components.

Simple1

Thu, Jan 15 2015, 7:43 pm

I know people in America who don't rely on OU hechscher, or like others said, sometimes yes, sometimes no.

octopus

Thu, Jan 15 2015, 7:59 pm

All those "better" hechsherim can say this or that about the ou but at some point they all rely on ou. A lot of it is political.

ra_mom

Thu, Jan 15 2015, 8:00 pm

octopus wrote:

All those "better" hechsherim can say this or that about the ou but at some point they all rely on ou. A lot of it is political.

This.
And this again.

Simple1

Thu, Jan 15 2015, 8:03 pm

octopus wrote:

All those "better" hechsherim can say this or that about the ou but at some point they all rely on ou. A lot of it is political.

That could be, and in general we eat OU, but as for OPs question, it's not so uncommon for someone to not eat OU chicken.

monseychick

Thu, Jan 15 2015, 8:15 pm

Personally, I would buy a live chicken and shechita knife. Present it to them, and tell them, they need to shecht, clean bird, kasher it, and then you'll be happy to cook it. Provide that they can show you that they know how to examine a knife for pegimas (knicks)...

Otherwise, just go vegetarian...

amother

Thu, Jan 15 2015, 8:17 pm

ou is certainly kosher but has it is known that the OU is not so strict with certain things. That said, I happen to have a very frum relative who works for the OU and he said that Empire chicken is shechted in the most mehudar way. He said that people dont realize this since the hechsher is OU and assume it is of a more lenient shechita. But when it comes to kashrus, it is nice to be respectable and if op's relative requested something specific it is admirable of her to accommodate.

amother

Thu, Jan 15 2015, 9:34 pm

Barbara wrote:

I'm trying to figure out what that means.

Would he consider flour to be a processed food? Oatmeal? Sugar? Spices? Does he make his own wine and grape juice?

He won't buy pasta, breads, cheeses. He does buy flour, grains,sugar, rice etc.

He makes his own wine and grape juice.

amother

Thu, Jan 15 2015, 9:35 pm

Maya wrote:

Does he cook everything, or does he make his wife do all that work?

I know when he was first married he helped his wife, I don't know what he does now he has a rough schedule. We live in different countries so I don't know the day to day what is going on.

STMommy

Thu, Jan 15 2015, 10:07 pm

amother wrote:

That makes me feel better because I got nervous about my family eating Empire chicken on a weekly basis for Shabbos if there was a problem!

And thanks for the compliment Smile

amother

Thu, Jan 15 2015, 11:20 pm

mille wrote:

David Elliot chicken is my favorite thing, when I can find it. I especially like that it's packaged in those vacuum plastic packages, no bulky styrofoam! So easy to throw in the freezer.

That said, I haven't a clue what could possibly be wrong with empire chicken, because I don't know a single person who doesn't eat it.

Where do you live that you say "when I can find it". I will ask and tell you where they are sold near you.

FF-I thought WISE is out of business?

mommy1108

Thu, Jan 15 2015, 11:47 pm

Maya wrote:

A large percentage of Chassidish people won't eat any food item that has only the OU hechsher, let alone chicken or meat.

Happens to be that a lot if chassidish people have started eating empire because it now is under another hechsher as well. The Nirbater now gives hashgacha to empire so it is officially chasidishe shechita.

amother

Fri, Jan 16 2015, 1:12 am

amother wrote:

He won't buy pasta, breads, cheeses. He does buy flour, grains,sugar, rice etc.

He makes his own wine and grape juice.

Sounds like what some people do for Pesach, obviously w/ chametz (not me).

Maya

Fri, Jan 16 2015, 7:50 am

mommy1108 wrote:

I was talking about OU specifically, in response to the woman who said she thought the OU hechsher was universal.

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