If we are frummer than the kids school..

amother

Thu, Jan 15 2015, 3:27 pm

We just switched our boys age 12 and 8 from a charedi talmud torah to a charedi leumi school. We had several reasons for doing this one of them being a better secular education. The thing is, our hashkafa is bait different to most of the kids in the school, for instance they have TVs, go to the cinema etc where we wouldn't.

My question is, do any of you have a similar situation or have had and your children turned out frum? I'm worried that they will end up going against our hashkafa, or can we not allow them to go to the cinema even though their friends might?

amother

Thu, Jan 15 2015, 3:35 pm

amother wrote:

I switched my children's school because the majority of the parent body Hashkafa was different then mine. It was not pleasant telling my children they can't eat their friends snack because it isn't chalav yisroel and other things they couldn't do that their were able. My children complained why can't we do it. It really wasn't fare to them.

I rather have my child in a Yes environment then a No environment. They don't complain anymore because everyone is pretty much the same as them.

Now I have one child who has a very strong personality and she is not influenced by others so her it wasn't an issue but for the majority of my kids it was.

The parent body of the school changed from when I originally started sending my children to this school.

I do hear your problem in E"Y and that is a main reason why I won't move there because I want my boys to learn basic secular studies so they can have basic math, science, geography, history and language skills .

amother

Thu, Jan 15 2015, 3:46 pm

I grew up with my parents wanting us to be frummer than the environment we were in. My parents were very strict with my older siblings, and they chose to be more "modern" as adults than my parents. By the time I came along, my parents were a bit more lenient in certain areas, allowing certain activities that were less of a problem for them than others - choosing their "no's" more cautiously - and as an adult I am closer to their Hashkafa.

I would suggest you consult with your Daas Torah about this.

In a parenting class, my mentor told an anecdote of someone she knew who moved OOT for Kiruv purposes. They were a family that were strict about Chalav Yisrael, and their DD was resentful of this, as she was Bat Mitzva age and couldn't partake of the food at the class parties. They consulted with their Daas Torah and were told to tell her she could choose to eat Chalav Stam while they lived OOT. She did choose, and after a while decided on her own to have only Chalav Yisrael.

amother

Thu, Jan 15 2015, 3:57 pm

I was one of the "frummest" kids in my class. I hated it. Sad

It wasn't even do to parental strictness, I didn't have to be told not to wear pants....- my family didn't do it and I was a "good" kid as were all my siblings..,..its just not fun to be on a different page then your friends.

amother

Thu, Jan 15 2015, 4:24 pm

I don't know what type of kids are in this new school. My kids go to a school where they are much frummer then everyone else. We live oot. We don't go to movies, have a tv, or eat chalav stam. In their school most kids aren't frum. Even the frum kids wear pants etc. That is probably a very different scenario then "chariedi Leumi" families. We definitely let our kids do stuff we wouldn't if we lived somewhere else. Once they get older we send them away for school because at that age peer pressure is really hard. (But if I had a chariedi leumi school I would probably be happy for them to go there till they were a bit older.)

amother

Thu, Jan 15 2015, 4:24 pm

OP here..

The school is char dal instead of charedi. its not a MAJOR difference, just TV and cinema and maybe a kippah here and there. Yes, we need to be careful to pick our battles. The kids kiddos are so much better though in this school. Its very pleasant there and the education is far better. Its a hard choice.

amother

Thu, Jan 15 2015, 5:10 pm

To answer OP's original question: "My question is, do any of you have a similar situation or have had and your children turned out frum?" I've BTDT and the answer (at least for me, b"h) is yes.

We live way way way OOT and are RW MO. Since there was no Orthodox school, we sent our kids to Solomon Schechter. All my now-adult children are to the right of my husband and me. One leans towards Neturei Karta, our daughter is a frum Sephardi (we're Ashkenazi), and child three is Chasidish.

amother

Thu, Jan 15 2015, 5:26 pm

I think OP, you need to look at the kids graduating this school. Are you planning to send your kids there through high school? Its entirely possible your kids will want to be like their classmates. I know families who sent their kids to schools of different hashkofos and their kids did indeed end up following the schools hashkafa.

Are you ok with that?

amother

Thu, Jan 15 2015, 6:53 pm

I can't speak as a parent, I can only note my anecdotal observations. I went to a school that was more to the left. The principal was more to the right and sent his 5 kids to the school. 2 ended up to the right of him, 1 stayed the same, and 2 are like the school they went to, which is to the left of the family. All five are frum, so I would call that a success. I agree with the above posters that your best bet is to decide where your red lines will be and what you will let slide if need be.

amother

Thu, Jan 15 2015, 6:59 pm

My siblings and I were all sent to a non-Jewish school, so different.. but we all turned out frum. Some people in such situations do and some don't, some who went to schools more similar to home hashkafa do or don't, too. I believe that what is important is that your children are in a stable, loving, healthy, and solidly Torah-infused home environment and that you communicate with them openly about hashkafic differences between your family and their classmates. I know that a lot of people these days don't have that much faith in their kids understanding that people are different.. but if you try telling your kids, "people are different, some do this and some do that, we do xyz" I think you'd be surprised at how receptive they can be.

amother

Fri, Jan 16 2015, 7:33 am

Do you think you cannot eat in people's house if they watch tv? What does one have to do with the other.
For all I know, I grew up in a non-kosher home and went to a public school, as well as partied really hard, and I still turned out frum.

You have to have a bit more trust in your chinuch and Torah than that...

Peanut2

Fri, Jan 16 2015, 9:28 am

It sounds like pretty minor stuff honestly. And I bet they don't watch tv or movies too often. From my experience charedi leumi schools don't exactly encourage tv and movies, either.
At the same time, yes they may absorb from values from there, like army and Zionism, so be aware of that. But especially if the kids are pleasant and well behaved it seems like they are getting good things. I know some people in Israel who sent to charedi tt and then later DL high school, for example, so there are people who blend.

amother

Fri, Jan 16 2015, 9:29 am

Unless my eyes are playing tricks with me.

My post was deleted...

I can tell you from the standpoint of the rebbe
My husband was a rebbe in 2 very frum schools in Lakewood
Very choshuv places. Every single day there are very violent fights in the lunch room
In the playground there were always fights
Some kids were very wild
Eventually, since he was never paid on time , he got a job in a modern school in teaneck at. Three times his former salary.
The boys are very competitive in sports . They talk about TV and non jewish music ( BOO). But there are never any fights.
And all the boys are very polite and well behaved.

I am going to DLKZ as I believe this is the most beneficial post in this thread..

Yael, if you would like, I can PM you a name and phone number to confirm the accuracy of the story....

amother

Fri, Jan 16 2015, 11:22 am

We are going to have that situation next year; we are transferring schools. I am a bit apprehensive about the challenges.... kashrut differences, cultural differences (t.v., music, and other media) and noticeable differences in what is considered tznius dress. But we are putting our desire for our children to have an excellent education in a warm environment before all of that. They will still have tremendous exposure to our "brand" of yiddishkeit at home and at shul and with friends within our community. The real world is that there are all kinds and we all live together anyhow, so they will adjust I think and hopefully feel proud of who they are and not sad or embarrassed to be different.

FranticFrummie

Fri, Jan 16 2015, 4:19 pm

We're in America right now, and you could call us Chardal (Charedi lite). Because DD has special needs, she goes to a public school, where she is exposed to all manner of extremely inappropriate things.

The best way to combat those influences is to give her a strong home, with lots of pride in her Jewish identity, and a feeling of love for our Torah. Sure, she questions things sometimes, but in her core she is very strong and knows exactly where we are holding. If anything, I think it's made her even stronger.

When we make Aliyah (IYH soon) we will be sending her to a dati/torani school, because they are the best equipped to handle her learning needs. Having her back in a kosher environment, even at a different level than where we are, will be such a HUGE step up! I'm grateful that we are going to have that option.

I don't know what her future holds for her. She may marry early, or not. She may join the IDF, do sherut leumi, or go to seminary. Maybe she'll get good enough grades to go to Technion, where she really wants to learn how to train guide dogs for the blind.

As long as she stays true to her values and lives a happy life, that is all I can possibly ask for.

Ruchel

Sat, Jan 17 2015, 12:55 pm

First know your kid. Some do well withholding peer pressure, some give in really hard, most in the middle.
Some will give in to small details like want nail polish but not “touch” the ikkar of the observance of the home.
Read Hold on to your kids. That said, it is clear that for many, the friends are a big big influence

Non Jewish influence is different as you know the kids are non Jewish. I suppose fully frei also is in a way easier than “frum but different”.

You need intelligent das Tora to resolve the potential machlokes with growing kids especially teen up.

Sanguine

Sat, Jan 17 2015, 1:37 pm

Peanut2 wrote:

This - I don't think many chardal people watch TV and go to movies. But they do believe in the state of Israel (that's the DL part). They will go to the army but probably must later (like 7 years after Yeshiva) and for less time cause by then they usually have a child or 2 or 3. Who told you that Chardal watch TV and movies? The religious hashkafa is Chreidi but the nationalistic isn't.