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Forum
-> Interesting Discussions
Ruchel
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 Sun, Jan 18 2015, 7:34 am
| amother wrote: | It's like when people started asking for pictures. First it was seen as untznius and objectifying and the guys who asked were seen as guys who had issues. Now girls who refuse to give are seen as 'not serious enough about wanting to get married'.
When something starts happening that men like, it will soon after be asked by all the shadchanim and girls who aren't interested will be seen as inflexible and needy. |
I don't think so.
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vintagebknyc
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Sun, Jan 18 2015, 8:28 am
| frumjewishgirl wrote: | | I don't think it died down I am very worried. Women should speak against it. |
consider the source, frumjewishgirl. a three year-old-old blog post, filled with inaccuracies (most of it clearly cut and pasted from other "sources"), composed by a 12-year old.
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sweetpotato
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Sun, Jan 18 2015, 9:04 am
Polygamy is illegal in the U.S., anyway, so you could send your husband to jail. If it somehow became "accepted" halachically it would be no different, legally, than men having long term affairs, and if ch'v's that happened in your marriage you'd sensibly get a divorce. Just because something might be allowed in the Torah under some circumstances doesn't mean you have to accept it in your marriage.
Any husband (Jewish or non-Jewish) could decide he wants a girlfriend. Unless the wife is also onboard, it's considered infidelity by all definitions and you can divorce over it.
Or, are posters worried that somehow polygamy would become accepted and rabbonim wouldn't issue gittin to wives who want to divorce their husbands due to their multiple relationships?
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Ruchel
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Sun, Jan 18 2015, 9:28 am
I'd ""worry"" more about finding a rav who will marry a man to a second wife without a heter mea rabbanim that are hard to come by even in very understandable reasons, be it get refusal or wtv. Some men have been stuck for years, decades or forever.
Unless you like the idea and he can afford it I'd advise to divorce asa it becomes a serious idea- not that he'll have it easy finding a second wife either. Not many girls are that desperate especially if wife not on board.
State wise he could just do a chuppa without a civil wedding, there are rabbis who agree to this. But that's really the smallest concern here.
For the umpteenth time polygamy is about avoiding to divorce a first marriage that didn't produce heirs; not about hot stuff. Except by the crazies who want to use the Torah for what they think will be a Jewish harem. Be careful, sultans sometimes got poisoned by their concubines 
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etky
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Sun, Jan 18 2015, 11:38 am
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I thought I had missed some really important development with all the hysteria about polygamy on this site lately. Yes, a few years ago this surfaced here in Israel too, mostly as a theoretical exercise, but no one took it seriously and it went away. What exactly is the urgency of this issue now? Why is it all of a sudden so pressing? Have we run out of things to worry about?
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SacN
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Sun, Jan 18 2015, 1:12 pm
| Quote: |
It bothers me because if other people start doing this and if it starts becoming an accepted thing then chas ve shalom men will start viewing it as normal and they will start wanting to marry more wives too. |
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that my husband would never in a million years want another wife.
He loves me. We have a good marriage.
But to have to live up to and support the emotional and physical needs of two women? Two women who are referred to in Tanach as tzaros to each other, because of their rivalry? And that many more children?
Ha.
Not in a million years. Nope.
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penguin
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Sun, Jan 18 2015, 1:15 pm
What about those women who complain that their husbands are very demanding, in whatever way. So if you have two women working on home up-keep, gourmet meals, bringing in income...
though actually when they were interviewing Mormon wives, I believe they have separate houses... there's a whole clan with 23 wives or so that they interviewed...
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amother
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Sun, Jan 18 2015, 1:18 pm
| etky wrote: | | I thought I had missed some really important development with all the hysteria about polygamy on this site lately. Yes, a few years ago this surfaced here in Israel too, mostly as a theoretical exercise, but no one took it seriously and it went away. What exactly is the urgency of this issue now? Why is it all of a sudden so pressing? Have we run out of things to worry about? |
Lol I wish.
There was a thread recently from a poster whose husband uses the torah's permission to take another wife as a weapon to hurt her. I guess the topic feeds into many women's insecurities about their marriage and their role and rights as Jewish women.
It's a branch off a loaded topic always.
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southernbubby
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Sun, Jan 18 2015, 4:35 pm
I have a friend who was born in Yemen and who immigrated to EY as a child. Her father married a second wife with consent from the first but the Israeli police tried to break up the wedding. They came too late and the couple was halachically married. This friend's grandfather had 4 wives simultaneously, back in Yemen.
BTW, the Torah allows polygamy reluctantly and it is not viewed as desirable. In EY, there are all types of cults.
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Rodent
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Sun, Jan 18 2015, 5:20 pm
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Has noone watched Sister Wives? I reckon it could be awesome in some situations -- some situations including everyone being on board from the very beginning. I don't think it will ever be mainstream or common, the OP needs to stop being paranoid.
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bigsis144
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Sun, Jan 18 2015, 5:35 pm
| etky wrote: | | I thought I had missed some really important development with all the hysteria about polygamy on this site lately. Yes, a few years ago this surfaced here in Israel too, mostly as a theoretical exercise, but no one took it seriously and it went away. What exactly is the urgency of this issue now? Why is it all of a sudden so pressing? Have we run out of things to worry about? |
THIS
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amother
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Sun, Jan 18 2015, 11:40 pm
Its ok if you all attack me; I am not identifying myself because one nosy lady found out who I am and as a result, I cant express my true opinions under my own name.
I think that the whole pilegesh thing is a good idea for those who are getting on in years and have never married. Imagine never having children, never having a family and a husband to go to a wedding with, make Kiddush for you, etc etc etc.
cant you find it in your heart to share?
Now, if you have a wonderful and happy marriage, I can see your point in not wanting to share,
BUT many of us here complain about unhappy marriages, insensitive husbands and good for nothing guys...
Of course there is the financial burden but maybe that could be worked out if the second wife has been working for years, is in her late 30s or early 40s and is willing to support her own children. Another complication would be the melding of two families/ the wives getting along/ or not/ and possible damage to the children of the first marriage.
These are real issues, but with intelligence and sensitivity they could be worked out. Perhaps the children of the first marriage are older already and they have a fully developed sense of self, which would not be threatened by a couple of baby half sibs coming onto the scene as they prepare to leave the nest...
I would be willing to do this, in order to help an older single girl have a family. Although I have always craved love and wished to be cherished, I have come to accept this is not my destiny on this earth (at least not halachically, and I'm not willing to have an affair for many reasons. I also don't believe I would feel cherished... only used. NOT what I need)
I recognize that it is easy for me to be generous with my man, since he can't/won't meet any of my needs. Not in the husband department, not in the father department, not in the parnassa department, not in the 'get things done' and taken care of' department. Incredibly, he is a 'nice guy' and not a mean or cruel sort at all... he is a great conversationalist and knowledgeable about lots of topics.
In any event, attack me if you wish, but don't call me unbalanced because I am of sound mind and body, as evidenced by my profession, which I will not reveal to you. furthermore, many of you who would label me loony, have agreed with me on sensitive issues in the past, liked my posts, sent me hugs, and called my posts insightful.
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Tablepoetry
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Mon, Jan 19 2015, 7:51 am
Amother above, your post is illogical.
If there is an inadequate husband, whose wife is unhappy with him, why would another woman want him? Would the second wife suddenly be happy with this inadequate man? Would the fact another woman is in the picture make the first woman's life happier? Would she just be happier by virtue of having more space from the insufficient husband? Wouldn't divorce solve that?
Bottom line, which older single wants to share a bad husband? I would think most would rather remain single. You can even have kids today without marriage (yes, even frum women have some heterim).
Now, if the husband is amazing, why on earth would wife number one want to share and destroy what she has?
All I can say is I am grateful to live in a society where this is all theoretical. Sadly enough, many many women the world over are not in this position.
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amother
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Mon, Jan 19 2015, 9:11 am
Table, you are a nice lady... very civil in your comeback.
I agree with what you said, except that my DH is decent... does not meet my needs in any way but he is not a bad guy for someone less emotionally needy than I. If I were approaching forty and single, I would do a cost/benefit analysis and would probably settle for an ok guy rather than live a life alone, without a hope of having children.
Artificial insemination is not a better solution because then one is condemning their children to a rootless kind of life... and that may be unfair.
in any event, I'm running to work, but would appreciate more discussion about this later if you are amenable to that.
we have a major problem In our society and we do need to find better solutions....
thanks for being nice in your disagreement....
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Barbara
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Mon, Jan 19 2015, 9:24 am
| amother wrote: | Its ok if you all attack me; I am not identifying myself because one nosy lady found out who I am and as a result, I cant express my true opinions under my own name.
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PM Yael and ask her to change your username. Then start using the new one.
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Barbara
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Mon, Jan 19 2015, 9:34 am
| amother wrote: | Table, you are a nice lady... very civil in your comeback.
I agree with what you said, except that my DH is decent... does not meet my needs in any way but he is not a bad guy for someone less emotionally needy than I. If I were approaching forty and single, I would do a cost/benefit analysis and would probably settle for an ok guy rather than live a life alone, without a hope of having children.
Artificial insemination is not a better solution because then one is condemning their children to a rootless kind of life... and that may be unfair.
in any event, I'm running to work, but would appreciate more discussion about this later if you are amenable to that.
we have a major problem In our society and we do need to find better solutions....
thanks for being nice in your disagreement.... |
Children raised by single parents are not "condemned" to a "rootless kind of life." In fact, I would argue that being raised by a single committed parent, in a larger family and community of people who love you, is better than being raised in a loveless home.
Both Barack Obama and Bill Clinton were both largely raised without their biological fathers, and whatever else you think of them, they can hardly be called "rootless."
Big shout out to all of my friends who are single parents by choice, and raising amazing kids.
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Frumdoc
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Mon, Jan 19 2015, 11:37 am
The whole idea of re introducing it into our society is nuts.
But so is so much that goes on in the name of frumkeit.
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amother
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Mon, Jan 19 2015, 5:41 pm
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We women should all not even let our husbands THINK of taking a second wife
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amother
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Mon, Jan 19 2015, 5:50 pm
Barbara, I am the 'amother' who would let her husband have a second wife...
2 things; first of all, I did pm yael about that, but she explained that my posts will follow me, so there's no point and no anonymity....
I would like to open a new account altogether, but not sure I can do that without a new e mail address too.
Secondly, you misunderstand me. Children raised by competent single moms are amazing.
what I meant was, that a child born to a mom via artificial insemination in a lab, where the sperm donor is unknown may feel rootless. I have read the life accounts of people in this situation and some of them suffer for now knowing where they come from.
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mirror
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Mon, Jan 19 2015, 5:59 pm
| amother wrote: |
what I meant was, that a child born to a mom via artificial insemination in a lab, where the sperm donor is unknown may feel rootless. I have read the life accounts of people in this situation and some of them suffer for now knowing where they come from. |
Would you please tell us where to read the life accounts of children born via artificial insemination? It sounds fascinating.
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