Home
Log in / Sign Up
    Private Messages   Advanced Search   Rules   New User Guide   FAQ   Advertise   Contact Us  
Forum -> Judaism -> Halachic Questions and Discussions
Kol Isha



Post new topic   Reply to topic View latest: 24h 48h 72h

amother


 

Post Sun, Jan 18 2015, 3:49 pm
I will start by saying I don't want to put anyone down. I only want clarity. If I see this post is going in any direction that puts other people down (any Loshon Hora), I will delete it!

I want to know if there are any Rabbanim that are maater Kol Isha. (Single 12+ or married woman singing in front of a man 13+) I am in a more yeshivish circle and never heard of any and want to be DLKZ.

Anyone?
Back to top

shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 18 2015, 3:53 pm
do you mean one woman singing in front of a man?
I dont know which rabbanim, I would have to go look it up, or possibly someone else will know who it is, but I learned that once it is not one woman singing, but more than one, it is fine.
As in we sing shabbat zemirot at our table, with family or with other families. No problem because no one woman is singing on her own.
Or did you mean women in general?
Back to top

monseychick




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 18 2015, 3:54 pm
One girl by herself LIVE , I personally don't know. Which doesn't mean there arn't.

I know a group together, there are heterim, especially if its zmiros and other divrei kedusha

There are also heterim if its an audio recording..
Back to top

amother


 

Post Sun, Jan 18 2015, 3:55 pm
shabbatiscoming wrote:
do you mean one woman singing in front of a man?
I dont know which rabbanim, I would have to go look it up, or possibly someone else will know who it is, but I learned that once it is not one woman singing, but more than one, it is fine.
As in we sing shabbat zemirot at our table, with family or with other families. No problem because no one woman is singing on her own.
Or did you mean women in general?


Im not op.

I also heard this, that more than one woman is not an issue. My community doesn't follow this leniency though.

Is there a difference in halacha regarding live singing vs recordings? Does anyone know?
Back to top

amother


 

Post Sun, Jan 18 2015, 3:56 pm
monseychick wrote:
One girl by herself LIVE , I personally don't know. Which doesn't mean there arn't.

I know a group together, there are heterim, especially if its zmiros and other divrei kedusha

There are also heterim if its an audio recording..


We must've cross-posted.
Back to top

amother


 

Post Sun, Jan 18 2015, 4:00 pm
shabbatiscoming wrote:
do you mean one woman singing in front of a man?
I dont know which rabbanim, I would have to go look it up, or possibly someone else will know who it is, but I learned that once it is not one woman singing, but more than one, it is fine.
As in we sing shabbat zemirot at our table, with family or with other families. No problem because no one woman is singing on her own.
Or did you mean women in general?


I'll ask about several different scenarios all of them LIVE:

In the zemirot situation, do you hold it is OK to keep singing if let's say you are the only one who knows the tune?

I'm curious about:

A) One woman singing, one (or more) men listening
B) One woman singing together w/ one (or more) men (
C) Two (or more) woman singing, one (or more) men listening
D) Two (or more) woman singing, one (or more) men listening.

Please let me know if you have info. on any of the above scenarios
Back to top

shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 18 2015, 4:04 pm
amother wrote:
I'll ask about several different scenarios all of them LIVE:

In the zemirot situation, do you hold it is OK to keep singing if let's say you are the only one who knows the tune?

I'm curious about:

A) One woman singing, one (or more) men listening
B) One woman singing together w/ one (or more) men (
C) Two (or more) woman singing, one (or more) men listening
D) Two (or more) woman singing, one (or more) men listening.

Please let me know if you have info. on any of the above scenarios
I know that in my community singing with men, in general, is just not an issue. I wont start singing on my own with certain men, but others, I know, could care less if I start singing on my own. And rthey are all halachic men.

But I am sure others will have other answers Smile
Back to top

FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 18 2015, 4:11 pm
I learned that the issue is not that the woman can't sing, because they have no prohibition of singing. It's on the men to listen or not, and if they have a problem with it then they have the obligation to leave.

I put this question to my rabbi: If a woman is a professional opera singer, she needs to practice 6 hours a day, and she likes to sing with the window open for the fresh air. Many frum men walk past her street - does she have to close the window?

The answer was that the men had to hurry past the window, and not stop to linger and enjoy the music. The woman is under no obligation to stop singing.

I hope that helps!
Back to top

mille




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 18 2015, 5:00 pm
amother wrote:
Im not op.

I also heard this, that more than one woman is not an issue. My community doesn't follow this leniency though.

Is there a difference in halacha regarding live singing vs recordings? Does anyone know?


Yes, according to many MO rabbis. There's also opinions about whether or not a live performance that you don't hear the woman's voice carry directly, but rather she's singing into a microphone (so you are actually hearing it through speakers) is "live" or not.

I also learned, like FranticFrummie, that it's on the man to remove himself from the situation and/or not listen, not on the woman to not sing. There's no prohibition to a woman singing, the prohibition is on a man hearing her sing. It might be courteous to not sing out loud in front of frum men who care about kol isha without warning or in such a way that they can't avoid, sure, but I don't think it's a requirement.
Back to top

gittelchana




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 18 2015, 5:06 pm
amother wrote:
I will start by saying I don't want to put anyone down. I only want clarity. If I see this post is going in any direction that puts other people down (any Loshon Hora), I will delete it!

I want to know if there are any Rabbanim that are maater Kol Isha. (Single 12+ or married woman singing in front of a man 13+) I am in a more yeshivish circle and never heard of any and want to be DLKZ.

Anyone?


I never heard of anyone being Matir. All the discussions I've heard on the topic was if a man needs to leave the room or not. Sort of like a bidieved thing
Back to top

jflower




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 18 2015, 5:30 pm
I was once at a charity event in Brooklyn where part of the entertainment was a frum woman singing (using a microphone.) There were several very frum men setting up the sound system or otherwise walking around and not one left the room. I was pretty surprised.
Back to top

amother


 

Post Sun, Jan 18 2015, 5:33 pm
Yes, I know of modern orthodox rabbis that think it is not an issue.They consider this a discussion in the Talmud but not an halacha from the Talmud.

Kol isha is based on a passage of the Talmud , and according to these rabbis they are talking literally about the voice of a woman. They say that the Talmud was saying that just talking to a woman might not be appropriate. Literally, kol isha. But according to them it's not halacha, it is merely another discussion in the Talmud.
Back to top

Peanut2




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 18 2015, 8:02 pm
I also learned that it's a prohibition on men, not women.

That said, afaik it does not apply to singing zmiros on Shabbos or women singing in shul, even if it is just one woman, even if married.

Also some say it does not apply to recordings on radio overall. The man has to see the woman for it to be a problem.
A bunch of women or girls singing together are also fine, again according to most afaik (even Chabad I think).
When a woman is singing solo in front of men there are still specific men/women who either have a personal heter or rabbis who don't belive it is an issue.

I have not found a consensus thought the modern orthodox world on this issue. Some people have issues with all KI, others rarely or with none.
Back to top

amother


 

Post Sun, Jan 18 2015, 8:44 pm
I am yeshivish.
I've sung in front of men when I recorded songs professionally, in a frum man's studio. I think there is a heter for business (and maybe it's also through a microphone).
I wouldn't sing casually in front of a man for no reason.
That being said, I believe the issue is for the man to listen, not for the woman to sing.
I'm sorry, no sources.
Back to top

Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 19 2015, 10:41 am
I saw a YU article saying a circles men are used to it, the issur would be a woman singing a one on one to a man or unclean etc
Back to top
Page 1 of 1 Recent Topics




Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Judaism -> Halachic Questions and Discussions

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Kol yaakov
by amother
0 Mon, Oct 16 2023, 8:09 pm View last post
Anyone else get emotional by kol naarim?
by amother
11 Mon, Oct 09 2023, 3:22 am View last post
La isha payment
by amother
3 Wed, Aug 02 2023, 9:40 pm View last post
Kol naarim malky Schwartz
by amother
0 Wed, Jun 14 2023, 11:50 pm View last post
Acapella Kol Berama
by amother
1 Sat, Mar 11 2023, 6:23 pm View last post