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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Preschoolers

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amother

Mon, Jan 19 2015, 7:27 pm

I never thought I'd be a "potcher" sort of bedtime-Mommy, but after an hour and a half solid of bedtime torture, my hand's a-swingin'....Oyyy! Even if I do hug them immediately afterward and tell them it's a "reminder potch" that I had to give to remind them where they belong, I hate it (especially since it's awfully embarrassing to try explaining why Mom can potch but kids cannot hit - but that's another story.)

Really, though, the main issue is Bedtime. Capital B. I've been reading some ideas here, but it feels like the equivalent of getting aspirin recommended for a migraine - not enough. Does anyone have a minute or two to brainstorm ideas?

The Players: 2 year old, 4 year old, 5.5 year old in one room, with me nursing newborn.

the Schedule: first supper right after school (instead of snack.) Activity. 5:00 Second "supper" (lighter, finishing supper). Clean up chores. Bath at 5:45 to 6:15. Pajamas. (When I get organized we'll do toothbrushing here - as of now I don't have the energy yet.) Then - the fun starts. We cuddle for Shema. I tell a story, and then 2 year old runs WILD and drives the rest of them crazy.

I sit with him in his bed.
I pick him up and tell him firmly "time to go to bed" and put him back in.
I close the door and sit inside.
I close the door and sit outside.
I sit with him on a chair.
I sit without him on a chair.

Then... come the potches.
Then daughters want to snuggle and tell me about their day, but when I do, 2 year old crawling in (even on the top bunk!)

Tonight is the first night in AGES that bedtime took less than ONE AND A HALF HOURS OR MORE with me continuously involved and in the room. AAAAAGH!

It is not too early - 5.5 year old falls asleep pretty quickly, and D2 hums to herself and follows somewhat later. If I start any later the ensuing disaster makes this look like a picnic.
I know 2 year old is overtired - he DESPERATELY needs a nap during the day but that's a whole nother can of worms (I tried for 45 minutes straight today to put him in, an hour on Thursday - no go. Any ideas on that? According to the nap book I"m reading he's due for a 12 pm nap.... and I see he desperately needs one... but he has no idea how to nap, and I have no idea how to get him there beyond holding him, stroking him, bedtime-routine-ing him, letting him be quiet/letting him talk/letting him listen to CD/letting him sit inside/outside/on the ceiling... you get the picture)

Any ideas?

relish

Mon, Jan 19 2015, 8:05 pm

I'm not an expert, but based on my experience I can try to give you some ideas.
First, a few question...
Is two year old sleeping in a crib or a bed?
Did you ever try not saying a word to dc, just picking him up and placing back in bed, as many times as it takes?
Where is nursing baby at bedtime?
How do older children react to two year old shenanigans?
Is it possible to put two year old to sleep either before or after older ones?

SingALong

Mon, Jan 19 2015, 8:31 pm

I'd try staggering bedtimes like 15 minute intervals if possible. Sounds like the 2 yr old needs to go in first. Outside the room You can snuggle and discuss day with other 2 while he's falling asleep. Then the other 2 can quietly go into bed after he's asleep.

Another option is to let a kid fall asleep in your bed and then transfer once everyone is asleep. I do this every night with my 3 year old. I found it to be the only thing that worked.

amother

Mon, Jan 19 2015, 8:39 pm

OP here.

2 year old in bed. I've tried silently picking him up and putting him back in many many times. He just laughs hysterically and repeats the process.

Nursing baby has a feeding during the quiet start time (shema/snuggle). I usually put her into her crib in my room before the panic begins.

Oldest is pretty good during shenanigans but still has comments/needs, however minor - and having room crazy means she doesn't mind joining in sometimes.

DD2 really reacts badly and goes crazy herself - compounds the problem.

I can't put 2 year old to sleep earlier because 1. he won't go to sleep 2. the other kids would lovingly dismantle the house (last week, while I calmed down a tantrum, the other two kids not tantruming stuffed the toilet until it overflowed into the floor below, for example.)

To the next poster, if I left him alone in the room, he'd either bawl or laugh hysterically - he would be devastated to be left out of the snuggle going on outside his door. He doesn't know how to sleep/nap without his sisters. (You'd better believe I'm training the baby on a schedule after this.)

In my bed would be an idea EXCEPT he'd come running back to the room to "play", hyperactive giggling and all. I could try it though...

sbil

Mon, Jan 19 2015, 8:39 pm

If it takes you over an hour to put them to sleep try making bed time a little later, when they are really tired and want to go to sleep.

amother

Mon, Jan 19 2015, 8:40 pm

making bedtime later only makes it worse, though - bedtime takes longer and is crazier! Am I missing something here???

the world's best mom

Mon, Jan 19 2015, 9:13 pm

Does your 2 year old ever get to choose the bedtime story, or is it always something above his level? Maybe he is bored while you read to the older kids and that's why he becomes wild then. Could you give him a calming activity to do while you read the book?

Once he has become wild, cuddling, massaging, and joint compressions may help calm him down. A loving few minutes with just you and him (once the other kids are in bed) may accomplish a lot.

mommyfirst

Mon, Jan 19 2015, 9:15 pm

My heartfelt sympathies. Bedtime here takes approximately 2 hours every night. I have 5 kids ranging from newborn to 8.
One thing I've learned: if my 2 yr old doesn't nap he is ready to go to sleep by 6:15/6:30 without too much fuss. He used to take hoooours to put to sleep with lots of shenanigans. I find that if I catch that early window for him - while bribing big kids to do something quiet and structured ( books, non-fighting game, video ?) -- he really conks out fast!!! I just sit near his bed , sing shema again and again and pretend I'm falling asleep to the sound of my own voice ....

relish

Mon, Jan 19 2015, 9:15 pm

amother wrote:

Okay, to me it sounds like the two year old is the major issue here. Once you overcome this hump, everything will run much smoother.
One idea would be to ignore the giggling from the two year old, as long as he stays in his bed. Then you can address the older siblings. Explain to them that the two year old is a baby, and if they act like a baby then you will have to leave the room for five minutes. So, they will understand that there are different rules for them and for two year old. It may take a while. They may be more rowdy in the beginning, but when they see you by the door, after five minutes of being out, and then see you leave because they are still being rowdy, enough times, they will understand that they can't have both. You will stay calm, and the older ones will learn to stay calm as well. Again, 2 y/o only rule is to stay in bed. Older kids must stay in bed quietly. Try this for about a week or two. I think you should see a change in behavior. It will help two y/o learn to go to sleep on his own, and will help older ones learn that bedtime is quiet time.
Also, once you finish bedtime routine, be consistent. Don't rub 2 y/o one night, and walk away another night. Follow through with your plan.

Reward yourself for following through. Kids will resist change and test you to your limits. Be proud f yourself when you make change.
If you decide to so it this way, please post how it went.

gp2.0

Mon, Jan 19 2015, 9:39 pm

What time does your 2 year old wake up in the morning?

Would it be possible for the two year old to sleep in a different room?

Would it be possible for your DH to entertain the two year old while you put everyone else to sleep?

amother

Mon, Jan 19 2015, 9:40 pm

OP here.

Thank you everyone for posting!

I do spend time with the 2 year old - I usually sit on his bed and pat him in order to keep him in the bed (otherwise he's out in a flash.) I would even go as far as to say that the problem is less his shenanigans and more the fact that he won't stay in bed!!!

I also try the 'am going out' rigmarole all the time. It sometimes works, sometimes doesn't. Sigh.

DH works late hours and is not available...

BUT I think the upshot of all these replies (and chizuk!) is that I'm going to try putting him to sleep early in my bed (which is a big treat, come to think of it) and speak to older girls how staying up is a privilege etc etc.

Keep you posted! THANK YOU!!!

precious

Mon, Jan 19 2015, 10:05 pm

I put in first whoever will fall asleep first. once one is sleeping the next can go in. works amazingly. when they go in awake together they can be silly all night.

Notsobusy

Mon, Jan 19 2015, 10:08 pm

I would also say to try to put him in a different room. I find charts work really well (although two may be too young) and putting something under their pillow works well too. I'll put something small, like a sticker or an eraser or small nosh, and tell them it will stay there if they stay in bed and they can have it in the morning.

sky

Mon, Jan 19 2015, 10:18 pm

I also have 4 kids sharing a room in varying ages. At one time they were similar to your ages.

Sometimes I'll split them up and put some asleep in my room. Especially that sleeping in our beds is a considered a privilege. If you don't stay in bed then you lose it.

The crib is still setup in my kid's room. If a 2 - 3 year old doesn't stay in bed then they go into the crib without a warning. No discussions.

Personally my kids did not do well with charts, they need instant gratification. I would sometimes promise chocolate chips. I would put 6 chocolate chips on the table before tucking them in. Every time I have to say to get back into bed one chip is taken away (this may be too much for the 2 year old to understand).

amother

Mon, Jan 19 2015, 10:20 pm

OP here.

I feel so hopeful and liberated - not to have to be trapped in the potch mentality I've been falling into.

THANK YOU!!!!! thank you!!! THANK YOU FOR SHARING and encouraging!!!

Gonna keep you posted (no pun intended)

mpk

Mon, Jan 19 2015, 10:30 pm

I have kids the same age same genders too. Two year old is still in crib though. I tried to put him in a bed when I had the baby but he would stay so back in the crib he went. I ended up buying a full size portable crib for the baby. That said two year old goes to bed first. Observe what time is his 'sweet spot' - when does he go in with minimum hassle and stays in bed. The girls should be far away from the bedroom then. Perhaps you can read the girls their bedtime story in the living room to give your son more time to fall asleep.

IMHopinion

Mon, Jan 19 2015, 10:56 pm

Op, are you sure that your 2 year old is tired enough?

mommy best

Mon, Jan 19 2015, 11:53 pm

Hi, I'd like to say if all those ideas don't work. U may try some melatonin, it comes in drops so it's easy to give. (he may be deficient).
I've been there done that.
Melatonin works magic and it's great for your sanity. 😐

babysmum

Tue, Jan 20 2015, 3:35 am

Your 2 y/o is overtired. Overtired kids are not easy to put to sleep. Try putting him to sleep earlier and giving him a nap. Going to sleep earlier might help him nap during the day and a nap during the day might help him fall asleep easier at bedtime.
Also whatever advice you take keep it consistent for at least two weeks and only then evaluate. If you will keep doubting if you are doing the right thing and keep changing the routine your kids will get confused and bedtime will be harder.
Good luck whatever you do.

FranticFrummie

Tue, Jan 20 2015, 3:54 am

2 year olds can easily climb out of a crib. A Pack n' Play is much harder to get out of. Try using one of those for his bed instead of a crib. Put in soft blankets, a pillow, a few toys, and a picture book. If he won't fall asleep, at least he has what to do, and can't run all over the house making mayhem.

BTDT

The age between 2 and 3 is when they start outgrowing naps, and will need them some days and not others, will desperately need them an not be able to sleep, and it generally throws off all sleep patterns that he may have had up until now. It's a really hard phase to deal with! In my experience, the only thing that helped was time, patience, and consistency. Just make sure he's sleeping somewhere that's escape proof.

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