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Necessity or Luxury?
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Tablepoetry




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 26 2015, 10:47 am
KollelWife3 wrote:
What don't you get?

We all budget differently. I was curious to know how others perceive certain comforts. As a must have or....not.


I guess she means, how do you manage without a couch? Where do you sit during the day, especially if you have kids?

IMO all are luxuries, meaning we could survive without any of them. But of the three, a couch is the first thing I would buy. You can eat off real plates, the house can be a bit dirty, but I see no real alternative to a couch.
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Simple1




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 26 2015, 11:05 am
I agree, Table poetry, that a couch is nice for guests - but then do you need two couches? I find one couch is never enough for company, so half the people just end up sitting on chairs anyway.

As far as cleaning help goes, I think for some people who are not capable or "don't have it together" a minimal amount of cleaning help may be needed so the house doesn't become condemned by the board of health. It's not like they're saying they're too lazy to do it themselves, but rather that it just won't get done and in first world countries a minimal level of cleanliness is considered a necessity.

So I think A LOT of cleaning help is a luxury. But for some, a minimal amount may be a necessity.

Paper goods - also depends. For example, we don't have enough china when we have a few guests - so nice paper goods in that situation is a necessity. For Pesach we use paper plates because we didn't get around to buying real ones

Luxury vs necessity is a matter of prioritizing and figuring out what fits in your budget.


Last edited by Simple1 on Mon, Jan 26 2015, 11:16 am; edited 1 time in total
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asmileaday




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 26 2015, 11:09 am
Who has time to sit all day?! JK

Don't consider any of them a necessity.

I grew up without a couch. You sit on chairs - upholstered dining room chairs. We never felt like we were missing something. So I can't count that as a necessity. Although now my parents do have one and it's greatly enjoyed.

Like everything else under certain circumstances anything can become extremely important (although I still wouldn't call it a necessity.)
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 26 2015, 12:02 pm
my dad davka, prefers his armchair
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pause




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 26 2015, 12:02 pm
For the typical Jewish home with more than 2 kids, they are all necessities.

Sure we could live without, but I find that in order for the mother to be happy while managing her household, all three are needed. Then again, if you have cleaning help, you have someone to wash your real dishes so you don't need paper goods any longer. Smile
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Sherri




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 26 2015, 12:08 pm
oliveoil wrote:
I consider them all luxuries, but a couch is a luxury I would prioritize above many others.
I consider them all luxuries even though I am lucky enough to have all of them right now. And there have been times I haven't had any.

The crux of it is- how does one define "necessity"?
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Hashem_Yaazor




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 26 2015, 12:11 pm
FWIW, the first couch I had in my apartment was a free loveseat. It's not always about the money, but about the space. I had the space for that, and took up the person who offered it to me. I would do anything I could to get a handme down couch if I couldn't afford a new one, but that is assuming I always have the space for it.
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amother


 

Post Mon, Jan 26 2015, 12:15 pm
etky wrote:
I'm puzzled by those who report that they do not or at one time did not own a couch. What furnishings do you own other than what I think must be truly universal neccesities - beds to sleep in and a table and chairs to eat on? If your home is large enough to accomodate a couch and you have a designated family living space, what furnishings have you prioritized above a couch and why? Are the reasons that you don't have a couch aesthetic, comfort -related, financial or something else?


as someone who has owned couches and grew up with several - we don't have a couch mainly due to space constraints. We sit around the dining room table to work, play games, draw, etc. and if I want to relax and read comfortably I do that in my bed. Would I prefer to have a couch, yes. But I am making do without it. So therefore its not a necessity. A comfortable bed, that is a necessity, as having slept on a thin mattress on the floor for 6 weeks while I waited for my lift to arrive, I was physically a wreck, and I don't think I could have done that much longer.
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Tablepoetry




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 26 2015, 12:21 pm
Ruchel wrote:
my dad davka, prefers his armchair


Armchair counts as a form of couch IMO, especially if it's big and padded. Like a couch for one.

The houses I've seen without couches have no armchair either.
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saw50st8




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 26 2015, 12:29 pm
I consider all 3 luxuries.

We lived without a couch for 2.5 years. Our free handmedown couch had died a long, slow death so when we moved, we didn't bring it. I was pregnant when we moved and very sick; I had no motivation to even begin the hunt. When I gave birth, I started looking but all shops near me are closed on sunday, so it was hard. Then I was pregnant and sick again. Finally, I found the time and energy to hunt for a couch and it took a while.

I love the couch we have now. It's amazing and comfortable and supportive and wears well. It's definitely a luxury.

Before we got the couch, we played a lot of ball and rollerskated in the living room. It was it's own kind of awesome :-)
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greenfire




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 26 2015, 12:42 pm
cookiejar wrote:
Cleaning help above all in my book - above food and running water even Smile


tell that to hungry people !!!

[I tried very hard not to call you on that - but alas my urge cannot be contained]
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amother


 

Post Mon, Jan 26 2015, 1:07 pm
all of my furniture was cheap or free. we got used shelves, used table, used mismatched chairs, used beds, used dressers, and used couch. not nice, new ones but old, ripped up ugly, dirty things.
I slept on a mattress on the floor for years and dh ordered a cheap bed from walmart.

I never had cleaning help and don't understand why it is a necessity. if you didn't have one, you would be able to do basic cleaning yourself. you can live without it and it is not necessary to live with.

paper goods cost money so I only use them for meals that are harder to wash up. if it is not a messy dinner, then I can easily rinse real plates

you would think a bed and blanket are a necessity but when you can't buy a blanket and you sleep with towels/bathrobes/coat over you instead, you appreciate having a blanket. even a cheap blanket costs money

it is all about your standard of living.

to me, everything is a luxury unless you can afford otherwise. if you are rich and used to this lifestyle, they become necessities since you never cleaned in your life you cant imagine doing it
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amother


 

Post Mon, Jan 26 2015, 1:20 pm
oliveoil wrote:
I consider them all luxuries, but a couch is a luxury I would prioritize above many others.


Yup, I think I would faster give up my bed than my couch. But to be honest, I would probably get my housework done faster if I didn't have a couch.

My friend doesn't have one, mostly for financial reasons. She is the type that would never buy a cheap second hand couch, she would rather save up for 20 years for a good expensive leather couch. But she is also the type that wouldn't even use it much. She is always busy doing, cleaning, cooking, running.... she never relaxes.
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Barbara




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 26 2015, 1:41 pm
cookiejar wrote:
Cleaning help above all in my book - above food and running water even Smile


When your children look like this, tell me that cleaning help is more important than food or water.

Hidden: 

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etky




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 26 2015, 1:55 pm
Tablepoetry wrote:
I guess she means, how do you manage without a couch? Where do you sit during the day, especially if you have kids?

IMO all are luxuries, meaning we could survive without any of them. But of the three, a couch is the first thing I would buy. You can eat off real plates, the house can be a bit dirty, but I see no real alternative to a couch.


I agree - which is why I actually found OP's original question a bit odd.
When the kids were little I used to do these fun exercises with them from booklets that were supposed to prepare them for gan or kita aleph. The exercise was called מה יוצא דופן? The kids were given a series of illustrations and had to conceptualize about the common denominator and say which item didn't belong to the group. Well, here the couch is the יוצא דופן - the exception. Paper plates and cleaning help are both time and labor saving measures which may or may not be deemed luxuries, depending on circumstances, and to which there is an alternative - you wash plates and clean yourself (or lower your standards). A couch is an object, a one time expenditure (can even be procured for free or symbolic cost if necessary) that does not need to be budgeted for on a monthly basis and which increases the comfort of a home tremendously, as no other furnishing does. Barring really extreme financial distress, space constraints or ideological reasons (the haredi perspective) I don't see why a home would be w/o a couch. It's a basic piece of furniture and unless it were Italian leather or something antique, its' not what one normally identifies as a luxury item or unnecessary embellishment.
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sneakermom




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 26 2015, 1:58 pm
Necessities are things you need to prevent death. So food, clothing and shelter fall in that category.

There is a different type of necessity. What is necessary for me to have in order to function in my society? To meet today's standard of normal. To manage in today's world with today's type of limitations.

So. In order for me to run a functional home I need paper goods. I work many hours a week. Have a family. And was never trained to wash dishes as a kid. I am scattered by nature too.

Which brings me to cleaning help. I need cleaning help to keep my home up to par to today's standards. I was not trained as a child to do disciplined housekeeping. I can't do two things at once. ( think kid kvetching, doorbell ringing, while merrily scrubbing the kitchen floor. Not. )

I don't need a couch. But I love a couch. It significantly adds to my quality of life. Especially because I am a couch potato. Very Happy
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 26 2015, 3:43 pm
I suppose some would prefer a comfy chair to no cleaning help, if only because you can sit on bed. Many people in a one-room sit on bed, or at the table
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 26 2015, 3:52 pm
Re. not having a couch: For us it's a matter of space. Our apartment is very very small. The couch took up most of the available floor space. It was nice while it lasted but not worth it, I would rather be able to move around comfortably. Our furniture consists of beds (2 twin size for DH and me, 1 toddler size for petite preschooler, and 1 pack-n-play for toddler), table, chairs, dresser, closet, and a Thing that came along with the table and chairs for keeping Stuff. And about 4 bookcases. Because books and a place to keep them are much more important than a couch.

Regarding financial reasons, though, couches are expensive and secondhand is not that simple - many people don't discard a couch until it's worn to the point that even if you get it for free it might not be worth the shlep, but if you do need to pay for it you're likely not going to get enough use out of it to justify even paying half cost. The only way to maybe pull this off is if you have access to the kind of neighborhood where people redecorate their houses "just because."
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