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Why is Israel Deliberately "Antagonizing US?
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Barbara




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 26 2015, 5:41 am
First, Netanyahu accepted an invitation from Boehner to address Congress. Some are calling Boehner's action -- inviting a foreign leader to address Congress for the express purpose of criticizing the policies of a sitting US president -- "treason." I disagree with that characterization, but do think that it shows a complete and utter lack of respect for the presidency by Boehner, and is essentially an "FU" by Netanyahu to the current administration.

Now, in what is likely an effort to show that the administration supports Israel notwithstanding Netanyahu, the Israeli president was invited to meet with Obama. And declined.

Does Israel really think that this is the best way to deal with the US?
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Iymnok




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 26 2015, 5:51 am
לב מלכים ושרים ביד ה׳
"The hearts of kings and leaders is in the hands of Hashem"
This is too big for them too come up with on their own, once elected they lost their bechira.
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 26 2015, 6:00 am
1. I think, since Obama has clearly shown he does not possess neither the will nor the desire to stop Iran from building a nuclear bomb intended to obliterate Israel, Netanyahu is doing what he feel he needs to to at least get a strong Congress behind the idea of stopping Iran. Netanyahu has been waiting patiently to see if his "closest ally" was going to carry through on its promises, and it seems like it will not. Time to act. He has a responsibility to the Jews (and non-Jews) of Israel which far exceeds his responsibility to the POTUS's oversized ego.

2. The POTUS has repeatedly shown distaste and poor behavior toward Netanyahu. Making him wait in the hallway when he comes to the White House on urgent business; leaking Israeli plans re: Iran's nuclear reactor not once but 5 times; having his staff call him "chickensh*t" the the Atlantic Monthly, etc. Why doesn't Obama employ such tactics against America's enemies instead of its allies?

3. For a President who is suddenly interested in "protocol," he certainly bends a lot of rules when it is he who wants to get something done and is bothered by those pesky Constitutional constraints. Executive order, anyone? That seems far worse than extending an invitation to one of our allies to address Congress.

4. Why do people blame Netanyahu for accepting this invitation before blaming Boehner for extending it?
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etky




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 26 2015, 6:26 am
The White House was informed of Rivlin's visit in December and did not initiate a visit between the two heads of state until this past Sat. night after Rivlin's schedule had already been set. A meeting would have meant prolonging his stay in the US by 3 extra days. Beyond that I think it's also pretty apparent that Rivlin wants to steer clear of the entire Netanyahu-Obama embroglio.
As for Netanyahu, I think it's a bit late in the game to salvage his relationship with Obama. Like Dr. Mom, I tend to think he's doing what he thinks is necessary to stop Iran. He is a very forceful public speaker and he can use this opportunity to make a convincing case for action against Iran.
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 26 2015, 9:24 am
Barbara wrote:
Now, in what is likely an effort to show that the administration supports Israel notwithstanding Netanyahu, the Israeli president was invited to meet with Obama. And declined.

Netanyahu wasn't invited to meet with Obama. So for Rivlin - whose office is basically ceremonial - to agree to meet with him would probably be an even bigger breech of protocol than Netanyahu's address to congress.

Quote:
Does Israel really think that this is the best way to deal with the US?

Maybe Netanyahu thinks there's no chance of help from Obama (who, again, won't meet with him, arguing it's too close to elections), and the best he can hope for is that Congress will push Obama's hand. It wouldn't be the first time an Israeli leader has tried to make up for a US administration's (perceived) lack of support for Israel by playing to Congress.

Maybe he's wrong. Maybe he's hurting US-Israel ties. I doubt we'll ever know - it's too hard to say how alternate realities would really have played out.

I hardly think Israel is deliberately antagonizing the US. Netanyahu is meeting with the US congress, after all, not North Korea. Clearly he wants US support, he just might be doing the wrong things to try to get it.
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rae gi




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 26 2015, 9:30 am
Barbara wrote:
First, Netanyahu accepted an invitation from Boehner to address Congress. Some are calling Boehner's action -- inviting a foreign leader to address Congress for the express purpose of criticizing the policies of a sitting US president -- "treason." I disagree with that characterization, but do think that it shows a complete and utter lack of respect for the presidency by Boehner, and is essentially an "FU" by Netanyahu to the current administration.

Now, in what is likely an effort to show that the administration supports Israel notwithstanding Netanyahu, the Israeli president was invited to meet with Obama. And declined.

Does Israel really think that this is the best way to deal with the US?


Why should Natanyahu not have accepted the invitation?
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youngishbear




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 26 2015, 9:34 am
Barbara I agree with you that it is inappropriate. Whatever POTUS's etiquette breaches or deliberate snubs, Netanyahu now lost the "moral high ground" so to speak.
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etky




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 26 2015, 10:07 am
youngishbear wrote:
Barbara I agree with you that it is inappropriate. Whatever POTUS's etiquette breaches or deliberate snubs, Netanyahu now lost the "moral high ground" so to speak.


I get what you're saying but it's an unfortunate phrase in this context. Yes, Netanyahu is thumbing his nose at etiquette or protocol but for the higher purpose of looking out for his nation's interest and possibly its very survival. I think in this case substance taking precedence over form is justified even if there is some diplomatic fall out.
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youngishbear




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 26 2015, 10:13 am
etky wrote:
I get what you're saying but it's an unfortunate phrase in this context. Yes, Netanyahu is thumbing his nose at etiquette or protocol but for the higher purpose of looking out for his nation's interest and possibly its very survival. I think in this case substance taking precedence over form is justified even if there is some diplomatic fall out.


Right, that's why I put it in quotations. Can you think of a more appropriate expression?

Unfortunately, in the court of public opinion, appearances, etiquette, and protocol all matter. I am sure Netanyahu has advisors smarter than me who encouraged him to take this path, but there are millions of citizens, who like me, will think that this was an insult to our president on our turf...
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 26 2015, 10:18 am
When was Netanyahu invited to meet the president? I heard that the president is deliberately NOT meeting with him. So close to the elections, etc.
I don't know if it's the most politic thing to do, but if you have a majority leader who feels that the president is heading down a dangerous path in his insistence that he will veto any further sanctions with Iran, as per his state of the union address, maybe he thought it was a prudent thing to invite Netanyahu to school the American public.
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etky




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 26 2015, 10:24 am
youngishbear wrote:
Right, that's why I put it in quotations. Can you think of a more appropriate expression?

Unfortunately, in the court of public opinion, appearances, etiquette, and protocol all matter. I am sure Netanyahu has advisors smarter than me who encouraged him to take this path, but there are millions of citizens, who like me, will think that this was an insult to our president on our turf...


And hopefully there will be millions of US citizens along with politicians watching the 'notorious Netanyahu', who will appreciate the content of his speech and agitate for stronger action against Iran. If that is the ultimate result of his 'faux pas' I think it will have been well worth it.
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Barbara




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 26 2015, 10:35 am
rae gi wrote:
Why should Natanyahu not have accepted the invitation?


First and foremost, no invitation should have been issued. It shows blatant disrespect for the government by Boehner.

Why shouldn't Netanyahu have accepted?

Since it began in 1962, American military aid to Israel has amounted to nearly $100 billion. For the past decades the United States has been regularly transferring aid of about $3 billion annually. In May 2010 President Obama asked for and received a special allocation of $205 million for the Iron Dome project above and beyond the regular American military aid. Subsequent requests for funding for the project have also been approved, including $351 million that Israel requested for purchasing additional Tamir interception missiles for Iron Dome in the third week of July 2014, during Operation Protective Edge. A week later, both houses of Congress approved, with President Obama’s backing, a special additional aid package for Israel of $225 million for purchasing more Tamir missiles.

And Netanyahu is going to stand up, in the legislative body of the United States, and criticize the current administration.

Even without the aid, it would be a disgusting move. With the aid, its unforgivable.

If Netanyahu wants to criticize the US administration, let him do it from Jerusalem. And keep his mouth shut when the US delay some of the military aid that it wants from the US.
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Barbara




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 26 2015, 10:36 am
PinkFridge wrote:
When was Netanyahu invited to meet the president? I heard that the president is deliberately NOT meeting with him. So close to the elections, etc.
I don't know if it's the most politic thing to do, but if you have a majority leader who feels that the president is heading down a dangerous path in his insistence that he will veto any further sanctions with Iran, as per his state of the union address, maybe he thought it was a prudent thing to invite Netanyahu to school the American public.


Netanyahu is not the president of Israel. Reuven Rivlin is.
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rae gi




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 26 2015, 10:44 am
Barbara, you are absolutely right that the Obama administration has given more money and arms to Israel than any other administration, but I still don't understand your objection to Natanyahu's accepting an invitation to speak before Congress. Even if you don't agree with everything Natanyahu has to say, surely, as a staunch ally of America, he has the right to say it in Jerusalem or Washington DC.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 26 2015, 10:44 am
Barbara wrote:
Netanyahu is not the president of Israel. Reuven Rivlin is.


Each time I mentioned president in my post I was referring to Mr. Obama.
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youngishbear




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 26 2015, 10:48 am
rae gi wrote:
Barbara, you are absolutely right that the Obama administration has given more money and arms to Israel than any other administration, but I still don't understand your objection to Natanyahu's accepting an invitation to speak before Congress. Even if you don't agree with everything Natanyahu has to say, surely, as a staunch ally of America, he has the right to say it in Jerusalem or Washington DC.


It was a breach of protocol, which amounts to a deliberate snub of the president and his policy, of which Iran is one part. As barbara pointed out, there is plenty that Israel does get from the US. This smacks of being ungrateful... and many Americans will take it as such.

Granted, many will perhaps be swayed to see reason, but the ends do not always justify the means.

I don't know yet if in this case it will. Time will tell.
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Barbara




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 26 2015, 10:49 am
PinkFridge wrote:
Each time I mentioned president in my post I was referring to Mr. Obama.


I said that the president of Israel was invited to meet Obama. You responded by asking when Netanyahu was invited to meet Obama. Answer: he wasn't. He's not the president of Israel.
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rae gi




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 26 2015, 10:57 am
youngishbear wrote:
It was a breach of protocol, which amounts to a deliberate snub of the president and his policy, of which Iran is one part. As barbara pointed out, there is plenty that Israel does get from the US. This smacks of being ungrateful... and many Americans will take it as such.

Granted, many will perhaps be swayed to see reason, but the ends do not always justify the means.

I don't know yet if in this case it will. Time will tell.


The breach of protocol was not initiated by Natanyahu. Why shouldn't he accept the invitation? How does anyone know that he will criticize the Obama White House? Even if he does, what damage do you think it will cause? In any case, the White House is used to criticism; I wouldn't worry. Last time he spoke before Congress, Natanyahu received a standing ovation.
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Barbara




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 26 2015, 11:12 am
rae gi wrote:
The breach of protocol was not initiated by Natanyahu. Why shouldn't he accept the invitation? How does anyone know that he will criticize the Obama White House? Even if he does, what damage do you think it will cause? In any case, the White House is used to criticism; I wouldn't worry. Last time he spoke before Congress, Natanyahu received a standing ovation.


Oh, so long as he disagrees with the President, the Republicans will love him.

As I said, as a foreign leader, you don't go into another country's legislative body to criticize its president.

But its more than Netanyahu.

IMNSHO, Obama reached out to Rivlin for one reason and one reason only -- to demonstrate that whatever it is that Netanyahu does, he (Obama) is still a staunch supporter of Israel. And Rivlin declined to meet Obama.

The Israeli government at present is clearly taking a stand of "we don't care about and will not deal with Obama." Obama has two more years in office. Israel should be asking itself what happens if Obama responds in kind.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 26 2015, 11:19 am
Barbara wrote:
I said that the president of Israel was invited to meet Obama. You responded by asking when Netanyahu was invited to meet Obama. Answer: he wasn't. He's not the president of Israel.


Whoa. My apologies. embarrassed I really have to slow down.
Why did Mr. Rivlin refuse to meet with him?
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