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-> In the News
Barbara
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 Mon, Jan 26 2015, 11:25 am
| PinkFridge wrote: | Whoa. My apologies.  I really have to slow down.
Why did Mr. Rivlin refuse to meet with him? |
Last minute invite, says his schedule is full. Maybe it is.
As I said, my guess is that the only reason Obama wants to meet him is symbolic. And the symbolism in "no," no matter what the reason, isn't good. IMNSHO.
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rae gi
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Mon, Jan 26 2015, 11:28 am
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Barbara, I think you fail to realize that the public perception of Obama disliking Natanyahu or vice versa simply isn't accurate or important. Actions and deals behind the scenes are what really count. As I pointed out, the current administration has been most generous to Israel, so I really doubt that anything Natanyahu says to Congress will change the status quo vis a vis the USA supporting Israel. Many people on both sides of the aisle in Congress support Israel so this isn't neccessarily a partisan issue.
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grace413
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Mon, Jan 26 2015, 11:31 am
| Barbara wrote: |
IMNSHO, Obama reached out to Rivlin for one reason and one reason only -- to demonstrate that whatever it is that Netanyahu does, he (Obama) is still a staunch supporter of Israel. And Rivlin declined to meet Obama.
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Forgive my cynicism, but I rather think that Obama reached out to Rivlin as a method of insulting Netanyahu - as in, I won't meet with the substantive leader of the Israeli government but I'll invited the ceremonial figurehead with no power.
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etky
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Mon, Jan 26 2015, 11:36 am
| grace413 wrote: | | Forgive my cynicism, but I rather think that Obama reached out to Rivlin as a method of insulting Netanyahu - as in, I won't meet with the substantive leader of the Israeli government but I'll invited the ceremonial figurehead with no power. |
Could be. Especially in advance of the elections. It's no secret who Obama would prefer to see as the next Prime Minister and taking Netanyahu down a peg in full public view would be totally in line with that.
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sequoia
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Mon, Jan 26 2015, 11:46 am
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But in many countries, including Israel, the head of state and head of government are two different people. In the US they're the same. So can't Obama meet with Rivlin (or Queen Elizabeth II, or whatever) as the head of state himself? I guess my question is, what's wrong with it?
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ora_43
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Mon, Jan 26 2015, 11:47 am
| Barbara wrote: | | As I said, as a foreign leader, you don't go into another country's legislative body to criticize its president. |
Oh, so that's why Obama insisted on addressing Israeli students, not Knesset, when he gave his speech in Israel.
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rae gi
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Mon, Jan 26 2015, 12:00 pm
| sequoia wrote: | | But in many countries, including Israel, the head of state and head of government are two different people. In the US they're the same. So can't Obama meet with Rivlin (or Queen Elizabeth II, or whatever) as the head of state himself? I guess my question is, what's wrong with it? |
Nothing is wrong with it; it just isn't of any consequence. The president of Israel doesn't make policy, the Prime Minister/Knesset does.
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sequoia
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Mon, Jan 26 2015, 12:03 pm
| rae gi wrote: | | Nothing is wrong with it; it just isn't of any consequence. The president of Israel doesn't make policy, the Prime Minister/Knesset does. |
Yes, I'm familiar with the concept. People above were saying his invitation to meet with Rivlin is a snub of Netanyahu, and I don't see that, any more than a meeting with the Queen would be a snub of Cameron.
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rae gi
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Mon, Jan 26 2015, 12:06 pm
| sequoia wrote: | | Yes, I'm familiar with the concept. People above were saying his invitation to meet with Rivlin is a snub of Netanyahu, and I don't see that, any more than a meeting with the Queen would be a snub of Cameron. |
I couldn't say if it's a snub or not, but it seems as if it is perceived as such.
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ora_43
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Mon, Jan 26 2015, 12:10 pm
| sequoia wrote: | | Yes, I'm familiar with the concept. People above were saying his invitation to meet with Rivlin is a snub of Netanyahu, and I don't see that, any more than a meeting with the Queen would be a snub of Cameron. |
If he refused to meet with Cameron but invited the queen, it might be a snub.
I don't know if inviting Rivlin but not Netanyahu is definitely a snub - just, I can see how it could be perceived as such, and maybe that's why Rivlin couldn't find the time for the meeting right now.
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DrMom
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Mon, Jan 26 2015, 12:30 pm
If Netanyahu had *declined* Boehner's invitation, all the Bibi-haters would accuse him of insulting Congress. I'm sure people would criticize him no matter what.
And I find it odd that people are accusing Netanyahu of "antagonizing" Obama when Obama and his oversized ego made a big point of declining to attend Bibi's Congressional appearance. Obama has time to be interviewed by a youtube blogger whose claim to fame is bathing in and eating Froot Loops, but is too busy to meet the head of an allied nation visiting D.C.
Just who is insulting whom?
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MagentaYenta
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Mon, Jan 26 2015, 1:37 pm
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It's all public posturing by both govts. The US is still sending billions to Israel.
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chani8
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Mon, Jan 26 2015, 1:50 pm
| Barbara wrote: | | ...and is essentially an "FU" by Netanyahu to the current administration... |
Why does this make me want to ROFL??!! The title of this thread is also laughable. "Rejecting" would be a better term. "Antagonizing" the US?? As if.
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imorethanamother
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Mon, Jan 26 2015, 2:30 pm
| Iymnok wrote: | לב מלכים ושרים ביד ה׳
"The hearts of kings and leaders is in the hands of Hashem"
This is too big for them too come up with on their own, once elected they lost their bechira. |
I thought that too, but I read somewhere that democratically elected leaders aren't exactly considered kings. So the jury's still out about bechira.
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Iymnok
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Mon, Jan 26 2015, 2:32 pm
| imorethanamother wrote: | | I thought that too, but I read somewhere that democratically elected leaders aren't exactly considered kings. So the jury's still out about bechira. |
They are "sarim"
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imorethanamother
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Mon, Jan 26 2015, 2:35 pm
| Iymnok wrote: | | They are "sarim" |
If you say so. If that's the case, however, then it should make no difference who's elected president of the US. So all the Jews that go insane over "Obama" this and "Obama" that, or how democrats vs. republicans are actually against what Hashem is doing through Obama?
No.
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Iymnok
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Mon, Jan 26 2015, 2:41 pm
With democratic elections hishtadlus comes into play. That's a great question, I going to ask about it. I never really thought about it, rather felt bad for the guy, he goes through all that work to get to the top. But once there can barely decide what to eat for breakfast!. Bechira for g0yim is different also.
Now you got me thinking. Thanks.
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Kfar
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Mon, Jan 26 2015, 9:54 pm
Barbara, did you miss the chicken sh*t remarks? The shutdown of the Israeli airport last summer by Obama and Co? That Obama personally ordered the Pentagon to stop sending weapons parts to Israel last summer in violation of a long standing agreement? The fact that the US Consulate in "East" Jerusalem is now comprised of armed Arabs in violation of Israeli law and they are roaming around in Judea and Samaria with weapons confronting Israelis based on unsubstantiated arab claims? That people in high places are referring to Israel as a "charnal house" that should be abandoned? That Cameron was just in town lobbying Congress not to boycott Iran at Obama's invitation? The recent overthrow of Yemen, threats by Iran to target Netanyahu's sons, Saudi Arabia's refusal to slow down oil production to bolster Iranian's falling revenues against Obama's wishes and the presence of Iranian generals on Israel's northern border to set up rocket silos, HAMAS rockets testing today and ISIS? The Congressional invitation that was in fact communicated to the WH? No US presence tomorrow commemorating the Holocaust and the liberation of the camps?
I could go on and on. As Cher famously said, "get ahold of yourself already." Iran, like the other tyrants before it, means what it says when it says it means to wipe out Israel. And like it or not, Boehner and the Republicans are the American government. And Netanyahu as the E'Y leader needs to sound the danger.
See American Sniper: three kinds of people: the sheep, who never want to see the evil because they are afraid and can't confront it and don't know what to do, the evil predators, and the sheep dogs, who see the evil and are brave enough to do something about it. As black sheep said -- read the newspaper!
Last edited by Kfar on Mon, Jan 26 2015, 10:04 pm; edited 4 times in total
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sequoia
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Mon, Jan 26 2015, 9:58 pm
Kfar, you may want to rethink the metaphor in light of your last sentence 
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Kfar
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Mon, Jan 26 2015, 10:04 pm
No actually it was deliberate -- I like it. 
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