Chutzpadik friends

amother

Wed, Jan 28 2015, 1:16 pm

My 6yo son attends a Pirchei group on Shabbos afternoons. It's a round-robin set-up, there are about 15 families in the rotation and each week 1 family hosts all the boys for an hour to read stories, play games, and get Shabbos nosh.

My son loves this. He is very happy to listen to stories, occasionally joins in the games, but when he doesn't, he doesn't disturb the others and waits happily for his Shabbos treats.

The problem is that some of the boys are really, really chutzpadik. Like they decide they don't want to hear a story so they will run up from where they're sittign and slam my book closed. When I tell them if they want to hear a story, they have to be quiet, they answer back, "you be quiet!" I have never experienced this - it's one thing to have a child talk back to their own parent, but a child to talk like that to someone else's parent?? It boggles my mind.

I am afraid of this being a bad influence on my son. He is a good kid, occasionally doesn't listen, but never out of spite, usually because he is busy doing something else. He occasionally talks back to me, but within bounds and NEVER talks like that to anyone else but his parents.

The two ringleaders are my good friends' sons, one of whom is in charge of arranging the group. I want to pull my son out but he loves it so much and it is a real treat for him; he would be devastated if I did that. But I also don't want him to learn from these boys, and more than that, I don't want to be spoken to in such a manner from somebody else's son. I can give my own kids timeouts, but I can't discipline other people's kids. I also can't ask them to leave the group. I don't want to tell my friend that I am pulling my son out due to her son's behavior.

Any advice? Thanks for reading, I know it's long.

Frenchfry

Wed, Jan 28 2015, 1:22 pm

I'd ask a couple of other parents (not of the ringleaders), if the same thing happens in their house. If the extreme chutzpa is always a problem, I'd pull out, and find some way to deal with the kid's disappointment. The bad chinuch is really not worth it. Depending on how old/mature your kid is, you can even explain to him why it's not a good place for him to be.

I wouldn't tell the other parents directly why you're pulling out.

Dolly Welsh

Wed, Jan 28 2015, 1:58 pm

Maybe when it's at your house, find a way for that particular mother to be present in the room. When her son acts bad, glare at her. She will be embarrassed and discipline him.

If that's not doable, have a man present. Or a few older boys. It is a rare little boy who messes with large males who are related or friends. But there needs to be more than one present. One might not be enough here.

The mother of the difficult boy is a big girl and knows perfectly what her son is like. Anything you tell her will not be news.

Take her aside and tell her the story.

Ask her to be present. Once you have made your point, flavor it a little that YOU need help and if she refuses to help you she isn't being a nice friend.

It seems a tough thing to take your kid out before absolutely everything has been tried.

Chayalle

Wed, Jan 28 2015, 2:12 pm

Frenchfry wrote:

Why not? I'd have no such compunctions, myself.

OP, do you serve refreshments? Tell them that refreshments will be served to those who cooperate and speak with Derech Eretz.

Frenchfry

Wed, Jan 28 2015, 2:37 pm

Most of the repplies here to OP, are to help her handle the kids her week. But that will only solve the problem once every 15 weeks or so. If the same thing goes on at everyone's house, and most of them "grin and bear it" because they want to keep their kids in the group, then that's a lousy chinuch situation to put a kid in.

Having the kids well behaved at her house solves less than 10 percent of the issue.

imaima

Wed, Jan 28 2015, 2:59 pm

amother wrote:

I don't understand why you can't try to have these kids removed. I am sure you are not the only parent that they are disturbing. Maybe their parents can come along and discipline their kids, when it's your turn?

If this won't work out, I still think you can send them to a time out or to play in the other room.
You decide what you can do in your house. Why are you so helpless?

Chayalle

Wed, Jan 28 2015, 3:00 pm

Frenchfry wrote:

ITA. That's why I think the parents of the chutzpadik kids should be told about it (in a friendly, non-confrontational way, of course.)

If it was my kid, I would want to know, since it's MY obligation to ensure that my child speaks to his friends' parents respectfully.

imaima

Wed, Jan 28 2015, 3:13 pm

Frenchfry wrote:

The question is why do ALL grin and bear it? Why doesn't everyone speak up and say, either you accompany your kid, or you have to remove him. Why does a good child have to go?

Nomad

Wed, Jan 28 2015, 3:40 pm

No reason for you to pull out. I would tell these little chutzpenyaks VERY firmly that we do not speak that way to adults and to please sit nicely. I also like the above poster's idea of using some sort of special treat/prize as a reward at the end for good behavior. You can also give nosh during certain activities to keep their mouths busy. Or implement a ticket reward system where kids get tickets for good behavior and at the end of the year the kids can trade in the tickets for prizes (you can speak to the other moms about this too). Praise good behavior when you see it. And make these troublemakers your special assistant for helping with certain things.
I would speak to Morahs and look online about how to work with a group of children. There are ways to keep control of troublemakers without the type of discipline you'd use for your own. Doing these things can show your child that the behavior of the children is unacceptable.