S/O vaccines, autism, "catching" autism,etc

amother

Thu, Jan 29 2015, 11:39 am

Before I post, I have a son who is not autistic, I had him evaluated by a neurologist who said he would be classified as autistic but she does feel he is somewhat on the spectrum. From the time he was 18 months (he's now 9) Ive been asking about his "issues" to anyone and everyone.

People say that autism is caused by vaccines.
It's been proven in a court of law that this is false
People have anecdotal stories swearing vaccines are the cause. (Just like I have an edit evidence that I almost died from an iv and every medical professional I've spoken with says it was reflux. But that doesn't mean it is true that I almost died from an iv)
Autism (from my research) is genetic. It is more common in boys than girls, and if one child of that gender has it, it's more likely subsequent children of that gender are at a hire risk. They have identified genes causing autism.

So how can autism be "caught" from a vaccine?

I'm asking this question seriously. I'm trying to understand the "other side" of the argument. I'm a science, numbers, facts based person. I come from a family of doctors. I don't read things online because I have no way of knowing if they are reliable. I rely on people who read studies from start to finish and not people who quote 5 sentences of a story.

Again when I tell my anecdotal story of almost dying I always add the part of the docs telling me that it was acid reflux. I do that because however much I still believe that the nurse almost killed me. I know that what cured me was anti-reflux meds.

Hashem_Yaazor

Thu, Jan 29 2015, 12:10 pm

amother wrote:

I am pretty sure the prevailing thought of those who believe autism is linked to vaccines is this.

There are multiple factors involved in something of this kind. Someone may be predisposed to autism due to genetics. Something in the vaccine though 'pulls the trigger' and causes it to manifest itself. Without that predisposition, the child wouldn't have become autistic, and without the vaccine, it would need another trigger (whatever that may be) to have whatever it is go awry.

That is basically the sum of my knowledge on the matter, and I don't think I can answer more about what other people's theories are!

amother

Thu, Jan 29 2015, 12:14 pm

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

OP here:

Thank you, that makes sense.

is there are a way to know if one has the gene like we can test for BRCA or is that not available yet?

Hashem_Yaazor

Thu, Jan 29 2015, 12:27 pm

amother wrote:

OP here:

Thank you, that makes sense.

is there are a way to know if one has the gene like we can test for BRCA or is that not available yet?

I cannot remember offhand if the MTHFR was linked to it. There was definitely something that was kind of in conjunction with it. I'll look around in a group I am in.

I did stumble across this just now though Vaccines Do Not Cause Autism this is a site I do not read at all, but I was looking in my group to see if I could find what genetic component they had discussed, and this came up.

Last edited by Hashem_Yaazor on Thu, Jan 29 2015, 12:28 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Thu, Jan 29 2015, 12:27 pm

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

But remember, let us say some one is predisposed genetically to autism and the vaccine turned it on. (I am playing devil's advocate here, I personally do not think vaccines cause autism and I do not think you do either.) Wouldn't the disease do even worse than cause autism? If the vaccine were "a taste" of the disease, what would the disease do to such a genetically pre-disposed child?

Hashem_Yaazor

Thu, Jan 29 2015, 12:37 pm

BTW, I just read statistics about MTHFR mutation today (in a discussion about folic acid vs folate, nothing to do with vaccines) that estimated 30-60% of people have this mutation. I'm not sure what to do with that information in this discussion, other than to say if rates are indeed that high, and if it is true that there is a genetic predisposition to autism with this gene, perhaps that is why there are so many diagnosed with autism. I really don't know much else, and would love to see further studies conducted on this.

mille

Thu, Jan 29 2015, 12:44 pm

amother wrote:

OP here:

Thank you, that makes sense.

is there are a way to know if one has the gene like we can test for BRCA or is that not available yet?

Not available yet. From my understanding, multiple genes have been implicated, and it's thought that autism is a group of related disorders that manifests itself as what we call the "autistic spectrum", but some 'types' of autism are not related on a biological level. Someone please feel free to correct me if you know the science behind it, it's not my field of study!

It's also worth mentioning that our definition of what qualifies as autism has greatly broadened over the years. It's not necessarily that autism is more prevalent today than 30 years ago, but our definition of what autism is has changed drastically over the last few decades, and more people now meet the criteria of diagnosis. I think this just complicates things in terms of what the layman 'believes' causes autism. The layman will see that "autism rates have gone up" and make a spurious correlation between something else that has gone up and then believe that correlation is causation. It doesn't follow logically, but it "sounds right" so people believe it.

amother

Thu, Jan 29 2015, 12:46 pm

amother wrote:

OP HERE:

You guessed right with me, I'm actually highly PRO vaccines and it hurts me to know that a child is suffering from anything, some things we can stop like measles and some things we cant stop like cancer. I have students who come back from a week of being sick which is horribly hard, then they have to catch up on the work they missed and all of us teachers require them to take their missed 5 tests within a 2 weeks span because there are another 3-5 tests given every week. It hurts to see their suffering. Other than taking a poll as to which students take/dont take the flu shot (I know this year not that effective) there is no real way to figure out why some kids in the class catch "whatever is going around" and other kids dont catch anything all season. Even the poll is a fake way of trying to do research.

I wrote my original post because I want to understand their side. No my views will not change but maybe I'll be less judgemental.

Someone mentioned its the toxins.....and I've heard that mercury is what people are blaming....aren't there versions of vaccines without mercury? cant one test for levels of mercury in their system before and during pregnancy is that is what causes it?

amother

Thu, Jan 29 2015, 12:48 pm

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

Read the link I provided about Vaccines Do Not Cause Autism to get a feel of what that line means.

I read it and did not get a feel for what "not processed by the body properly" means. Could you please explain if you do feel this way. I am trying to understand the other side of this. I saw they talked a lot about Andy Wakefield. But, he paid his son's friends at a birthday party for blood completely unethically and took money for his stance and produced research to support it. Andy Wakefield is not someone I trust. If I ever did the awful things that he did, I would be laughed out of my field.

amother

Thu, Jan 29 2015, 12:58 pm

mille wrote:

OP here:
Your second paragraph is kind of what I was talking about in my original post. My son is not really even on the spectrum he has what I like to call "autistic tendencies" The doctor did mention to me that she feels 1/3 of people walking around have "autism" like she clarified 90% of them would never be diagnosed as such but that we ALL have "autistic tendencies". If we use the treatments for autism to help those with just tendencies we can make a big difference. Meaning once we created a treatment plan for my son as though he had autism he changed to a completely different person. Yes, his tendencies are still there, but he functions so much better, our house/family function so much better.

It is a very good point that in general with many issues, we see a "rise" in numbers but it may not be a rise but a difference in thought. For example, there were probably as many gay people as there are now, but now its "okay" to be open about it where it was a crime about 60 years ago.

amother

Thu, Jan 29 2015, 12:58 pm

amother wrote:

OP, I have a mutation which makes me more prone to all these infections. It is hard. I got the flu and I got it bad. I too want to understand this stance better which is why I want to talk to HY. She is nice and respectful and maybe she can help us to understand. I find some people militant on both sides. But, until someone is calm and willing to talk, we won't understand the other side. My opinion won't change. I am a scientist. I see the data and I understand it from a different perspective. Thank you for opening a respectful thread. I hope this will help me glean more information.

Hashem_Yaazor

Thu, Jan 29 2015, 1:12 pm

I wish I knew more, but I don't. I'm not militant either way. I just like learning and seeing many facets to the world, with no white and black answers.

Anyway, how Wakefield got his samples is besides the point.

I don't really understand this so much, but apparently, in the case of MTHFR at least, there is a limitation to the ability to process certain things (toxins?) due to a problem in recycling BH4. (I am just reading up on this now, never heard of it before.) Apparently aluminum also hampers BH4, and aluminum is a common adjuvant in vaccines. It seems that treatment plans with BH4 have shown some success in treating children with ASD symptoms, but there isn't a lot of studies on it yet. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pm.....8599/

I have no idea if someone is going to label this as quack science or not. Nothing crazy jumps out at me when reading that study.