S/o And the vax discussion cont. - ultra orthodox dont vax?

Notsobusy

Mon, Feb 02 2015, 3:25 pm

Quote:

I naively assumed Jews (outside of the ultra-Orthodox) always vaccinate for lots of reasons–we are a religion that values life after all.

I've seen this expressed in other threads about vaccinating also. I'm just wondering, who are these ultra-Orthodox who don't vax? Is it talking about anyone who is not MO, is it yeshivish people, chassidim. charieidim? Is this really true that most or many ultra-Orthodox don't vax?

I don't know the author of that article, but I would imagine I would be included in the "ultra-Orthodox" that they are talking about. I would consider myself yeshivish-ish, I live in Lakewood, grew up in a yeshivish-ish home, most of my friends, relatives and neighbors are about as ultra-orthodox as I am, some a little more ultra, some less. I can't think of anybody I know personally who doesn't vax. I have heard of some people in my community who don't vax, but it's been discussed as a negative, not a positive thing.

So who are these ultra-Orthodox who don't vax? Is it true about Chassidim? I don't personally know many Chassidim, but from what I have heard most do vax. Is it just an urban legend? Or am I just naïve?

amother

Mon, Feb 02 2015, 3:38 pm

There are indeed chassidish families who don't vaccinate. There are chassidish families who believe in alternative or holistic medicine. In Williamsburg the health food stores do brisk business.

The majority of families b"H do vaccinate and take their kids to the doctor. But homeopathic and alternative remedies are very popular, too.

Sometimes maddeningly so. Ladies waiting for school buses discussing ear infections will suggest Echinacea. Breast infection? phitolacca.

I've tried them, and sometimes it works, but it's fascinating to see how people swallow some of the most outlandish theories and healing methods. Energy and dousing and whatnot... Rolling Eyes

I can't wrap my head around this: why do people mistrust "Big Pharma" because "they're in it for the money" yet pour thousands and thousands of dollars into "Big Natural" or whatever we want to call the vitamin and remedies business???

amother

Mon, Feb 02 2015, 3:40 pm

Dolly Welsh wrote:

I call no fair. They aren't on computers. Therefore, they can't defend themselves here.

But some here may know some, perhaps.

I'm amother above. I know many like this but I don't know too many up close. I'm very cynical about the subject, so maybe some of my friends avoid discussing it with me? LOL.

I had one friend who was very into all the shenanigans but after a few years she's come around quite a bit.

And we wouldn't stay friends if she wouldn't vaccinate.

Notsobusy

Mon, Feb 02 2015, 3:41 pm

I'm sure there are Chassidim who don't vax, but is it most, or is it a small percentage, just like there is a small percentage in any community who don't vax.

Where does this perception come from that ultra-Orthodox don't vax?

imaima

Mon, Feb 02 2015, 3:43 pm

As far as I understand it, some ultra-orthodox people in Israel don't have anything to do with the state, so they also don't do vaccinations required by the state.
I don't know if there are such people in other countries.

Maya

Mon, Feb 02 2015, 4:18 pm

amother wrote:

I've tried them, and sometimes it works, but it's fascinating to see how people swallow some of the most outlandish theories and healing methods. Energy and dousing and whatnot... Rolling Eyes

One theory is that it's one of the few things in their live that they can control. Every other area is dictated by their chumrahs and their rebbes and their parents' control of them. Medicine is one aspect in which they can make their own decisions, to a certain extent, without anyone's input getting in the way, because it is not a religious matter. It also allows them to express some individuality, doing something that's different in a world that's otherwise a very small box.

amother

Mon, Feb 02 2015, 4:28 pm

Maya wrote:

It seems farfetched to me. Especially as there are people at the other end of the spectrum who do the same.

Especially because they are simply adding more extreme beliefs, and accepting gurus and holistic brainwashers as their cult leaders. How is that expressing individuality?

I wish I could figure it out.
What

Maya

Mon, Feb 02 2015, 4:32 pm

amother wrote:

To them, it's not adding an extreme belief. To them, it's something that they do differently than the rest of the population, and that sets them apart, thereby expressing individuality.

amother

Mon, Feb 02 2015, 4:38 pm

Maya wrote:

To them, it's not adding an extreme belief. To them, it's something that they do differently than the rest of the population, and that sets them apart, thereby expressing individuality.

I hear your theory but it doesn't seem like the answer to me. They tend to network with each other so they dont feel so individual. Many also attempt to persuade others, so they are not trying to be unique. They genuinely believe they know better than the established medical community.

Lol Maya. This is a perfect example of human nature being the same wherever people come from. The liberals, we say, do this because (fill in the blank). But the chassidishe veiblech do it because of repression? I don't buy it.

Maya

Mon, Feb 02 2015, 4:47 pm

small bean wrote:

Maya, I have a similar theory.

I think of it is a lack of spiritual fulfillment. This is a belief you can hold onto and obsess with. It's cult like etc...

Yes, I thought of this one, too.

sequoia

Mon, Feb 02 2015, 4:53 pm

The reason anyone does not vax is because these illnesses have become rare, so people aren't afraid of them. The diseases are theoretical. The possible reactions to vaccines seem more real. If these illnesses came back with a vengeance, they'd RUN to vax.

amother

Mon, Feb 02 2015, 4:55 pm

sequoia wrote:

Key word is bolded.

amother

Mon, Feb 02 2015, 5:01 pm

Maya have you considered the prospective that the natural field is being so picked up on because it actually works and is without side effects? I don't know why you have to make people sound like such idiots.

Maya

Mon, Feb 02 2015, 5:06 pm

amother wrote:

Yes, I have considered that option, and just like you came to the conclusion that it "actually works without side effects," my conclusion is that it can work sometimes if you happen to get lucky, but it's certainly not something to substitute proper medical care with.

I don't think I made anyone sound like an idiot. Besides anti-vaxxers, of course.

sequoia

Mon, Feb 02 2015, 5:11 pm

Because they're harming their own and other people's children.

Natural remedies are WONDERFUL. I am chugging elderberry syrup as we speak. I take vitamins, fermented cod liver oil, liquid chlorophyll, and herbal remedies. I love the effects of garlic.

None of which eradicated smallpox. You know what did, though? VACCINES.

The mark of a smart person is the ability to assess the situation rather than stubbornly sticking to your view no matter what.