Cruise control | Imamother

amother

Mon, Feb 02 2015, 10:28 pm

Can someone go on a cruise even if the boat travels during shabbos? How does one work out shabbos? Is it like a hotel if you're there before shabbos it's good enough? Does the boat have to be docked?

amother

Mon, Feb 02 2015, 10:34 pm

As far as I know, it's ok if you boarded before shabbos. People used to travel by sea from continent to continent (ex: Europe to US.) it took more than a week.

chani8

Tue, Feb 03 2015, 5:20 am

You certainly don't have anything to worry about if it's a non-jewish ship.

nyer1

Tue, Feb 03 2015, 6:10 am

Chani I disagree. Many shailas for taking a cruise. Definitely doable and and a great vacation for a kisher traveler but should be done with full explanation from a competent rav

chani8

Tue, Feb 03 2015, 6:16 am

nyer1 wrote:

Chani I disagree. Many shailas for taking a cruise. Definitely doable and and a great vacation for a kisher traveler but should be done with full explanation from a competent rav

Certainly. You're right. It's always best to consider the potential issues that could come up, and learn their halachic solutions.

animeme

Tue, Feb 03 2015, 6:53 am

One issue: aside from just the door lock thing, I have heard that many cruises have the same issue as many hotel rooms- if you open the balcony door, it automatically shuts off the air conditioning immediately, and closing it turns it back on.

I too learned that you can be on a boat over Shabbos, wherever it is. But you cannot get on or off.

mille

Tue, Feb 03 2015, 9:44 am

I've been on a bunch of cruises. I love cruising!

If it docks on Shabbos, you can't leave the boat. Many many cruises that don't leave or return on Saturday also don't have port days on Shabbos, though, so it's not always such a big issue. There are plenty of 7 day cruises out of Florida (mostly to the caribbean) that leave and return Sundays, where Saturday is a sea day. From my understanding, it's better if the boat is moving, not docked.

Before Shabbos, spend a little time getting familiar with the boat and note all of the non-electronic entrances and doors. The most recent cruise I went on, there were a lot of automatic doors, but several places I could enter/exit the pool deck and other areas through a regular swing door. You'll have to decide how you want to handle your room door on Shabbos. Some people tape the locking mechanism so it just doesn't lock (not very safe), some people ask the room attendant to open the door for them (not very viable if you need to get back in your room and no one is around, or it's burdensome to ask constantly). Either way, I would plan to not go back into your room much on Shabbos (or stay there the whole time, if you have a balcony that can be nice!). I would pack a lot of stuff up, books and a sweatshirt and sunglasses and anything else you might possibly need, to reduce the number of trips you would need to go back. Last cruise, I left in the morning for breakfast and didn't come back to my room til after Shabbos (admittedly it was early, 6ish).

I don't think it even really needs a "competent rav". The star-k (I believe, maybe kof-k) has an article about travelling by boat. Travelling by boat on Shabbos is 100% acceptable, and there are no questions to even ask if the boat is in motion and you left several days before Shabbos. The rest of your questions will involve how to manage shabbos on a boat that is full of electric doors and other non-shabbos friendly things.

One more shabbos recommendation, see if your ship has a board game room. Most ships I've been on have had a room with lots of board games to play for free, and it's a nice and quiet area to hang out on Shabbos. Most cruises I've been on, I've seen other frum people hanging out there! It feels a little more "shabbosdik" than other places you could hang out. Sea days also sometimes have really cool demonstrations, like cooking demos or fruit carving, those are fun activities if they fall on Shabbos.

I know this is long. I REALLY love cruising. Can you tell? Very Happy

If you end up going, enjoy!

amother

Tue, Feb 03 2015, 9:52 am

What if it boards erev shabbos? Too close for comfort.

varyfrum10977

Tue, Feb 03 2015, 10:06 am

Even if it leaves on its ok as long as your on before sundown

mille

Tue, Feb 03 2015, 10:09 am

amother wrote:

What if it boards erev shabbos? Too close for comfort.

I would not push it for two reasons.

First, there is an opinion in halacha that says that you should board a few days beforehand so your body can get acclimated to the movement. You are supposed to avoid the possibility of seasickness over Shabbos because it will ruin your enjoyment of Shabbos. However, some rabbis don't really hold by this today, as we have seasickness medication that works after a few hours.

Second, and more important, something could delay the ship leaving. What if there's a medical emergency before they leave and they need to wait to evacuate someone from the ship? What if there's an issue with the final safety check and they need to repair something? I wouldn't say ships are delayed all that often, but with Shabbos observance, it's as risky as booking a flight to arrive two hours before Shabbos. It could be fine, but it could not be fine...

Also, depending on where you depart and what time of year it is, it might already be candle lighting by the time the ship is getting ready to move. Most of my cruises have left around 5-7pm depending on the ship schedule. In one case, it was definitely after sunset when we finally left, so this might be considered a different halachic case, we were ON the boat but physically left after Shabbos started.

Oh, one final Shabbos note -- don't bring candles! They will confiscate them if they find them in the baggage check, and if you are found to light candles in your room, you could be fined! Bring little LED tealights. Some ships have a "Sabbath program" where they have electric candlesticks. But don't bring actual candles!

amother

Tue, Feb 03 2015, 10:32 am

uch now I don't want to go even more

mille

Tue, Feb 03 2015, 11:05 am

... Seriously?

So much for trying to help.

Cruises are an awesome vacation that many, MANY frum people really enjoy. But if you just want to be kvetchy when people are trying to help you, whatever.

amother

Tue, Feb 03 2015, 11:12 am

I don't want to go to begin with. My niece wants to get married on a cruise. I find it all ostentatious. Not to mention I have claustrophobia. There I said it.

Shabbos just plays a bigger question into the inconvenience.

DrMom

Tue, Feb 03 2015, 11:26 am

So you were hoping there was a halachic issue with being on a boat for Shabbat, but now that there isn't you are annoyed?

amother

Tue, Feb 03 2015, 11:33 am

DrMom wrote:

So you were hoping there was a halachic issue with being on a boat for Shabbat, but now that there isn't you are annoyed?

no no no I seriously wanted to know about leaving if it boards not long before shabbos. I'm just annoyed at the whole thing because it was originally supposed to be a docked wedding at a port and then whomever wanted to join the cruise would. This just makes it impossible for those that get seasick or cannot afford the pricey cabins.

DrMom

Tue, Feb 03 2015, 11:45 am

amother wrote:

That does sound more sensible.

amother

Tue, Feb 03 2015, 12:04 pm

mille wrote:

... Seriously?

So much for trying to help.

Cruises are an awesome vacation that many, MANY frum people really enjoy. But if you just want to be kvetchy when people are trying to help you, whatever.

I appreciate your insight. The information is helpful (or will be if I go).

Yes I'm kvetchy because I don't really find a cruise to be on my bucket list. Not even if it's the Love Boat.

mille

Tue, Feb 03 2015, 12:10 pm

amother wrote:

I appreciate your insight. The information is helpful (or will be if I go).

Yes I'm kvetchy because I don't really find a cruise to be on my bucket list. Not even if it's the Love Boat.

My apologies. Perhaps you should have been upfront about that to begin with. I was under the impression you were looking for advice on planning a vacation, because many people find cruises to be awesome (myself included, obviously).

There is medication you can take for seasickness. They give it away for free on the ship, but you can bring your own. The kind on the ship is the once-a-day type pills. There are also 'seabands' wrist bands that have a pressure point setup that prevents seasickness. Also green apples and ginger help. If you have to go and don't want to, might as well not be miserable. Also, when you feel woozy, look out at the horizon. It helps your brain adjust to the movement (seasickness is just a miscommunication between your vestibular sense, which tells your brain that your body is moving, and your visual system that doesn't perceive any movement because the world around you is not moving).

If you have to go, make the best of it!

amother

Tue, Feb 03 2015, 12:24 pm

mille wrote:

I hadn't thought it all out before I posted. Hence, the shabbos query seemed to be the main one to ask for all the frum family members.

mille wrote:

If you have to go, make the best of it!

Yes that's the plan. Do it with a smile & grace. (Can I hope they change their plans?)

Ruchel

Tue, Feb 03 2015, 12:49 pm

Problem may be minyan.But If you aren't forced to daven in minyan by your hashkafa, or if it's a line many frum Jews take, problem solved. My ils did many cruises (black kippa sheitel).