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Article: The Anti-Vaccine Movement Should Be Ridiculed
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imasoftov




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 07 2015, 9:46 am
http://gizmodo.com/the-anti-va.....58152
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imasoftov




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 07 2015, 3:28 pm
6 Dangerous Anti-Vaccination Arguments Analyzed, Explained, And Shut Down

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/......html
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imasoftov




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 07 2015, 4:30 pm
This Anti-Vax Children’s Book Is Being Expertly Trolled In Its Amazon Reviews

http://uproxx.com/webculture/2.....iews/
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youngishbear




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 07 2015, 4:44 pm
http://imamother.com/forum/vie.....t=psa

Please let's stop debating whether water is wet. Logic has no impact and may be making it worse.
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GreenEyes26




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 07 2015, 4:59 pm
I was JUST thinking about this over Shabbos. Several anti-vax posters keep moaning "Why doesn't anyone give us any respect? Why can't you have an intelligent argument with us?" blah blah blah. Anti-vaxer's don't deserve respect or validation for their "scientific arguments" based on junk science.

Nothing they say is worth the paper it's written on or the screen it's typed on. So...yeah. You don't get any respect from normal people, since everything you say about the subject isn't worth it.
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youngishbear




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 07 2015, 5:02 pm
GreenEyes26 wrote:
I was JUST thinking about this over Shabbos. Several anti-vax posters keep moaning "Why doesn't anyone give us any respect? Why can't you have an intelligent argument with us?" blah blah blah. Anti-vaxer's don't deserve respect or validation for their "scientific arguments" based on junk science.

Nothing they say is worth the paper it's written on or the screen it's typed on. So...yeah. You don't get any respect from normal people, since everything you say about the subject isn't worth it.


Exactly. It's not a "totally legitimate alternative choice" that everyone should treat with respect (like EBF), because it puts others in harm's way, and is based on nonsense.
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moonbeam




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 07 2015, 8:59 pm
Puke

There is absolutely no point to this thread except to provoke and ridicule.

If anyone ever decides to start a pro-vax thread that's educational and rational and reasonable and states reputable studies, and is free of name calling and ridicule and finger pointing, feel free to PM me and I'll read it.

Otherwise I'm done dealing with all the unbased hatred and garbage.

Banging head
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youngishbear




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 07 2015, 9:03 pm
eemachana wrote:
Puke

There is absolutely no point to this thread except to provoke and ridicule.

If anyone ever decides to start a pro-vax thread that's educational and rational and reasonable and states reputable studies, and is free of name calling and ridicule and finger pointing, feel free to PM me and I'll read it.

Otherwise I'm done dealing with all the unbased hatred and garbage.

Banging head


The title was a clue, wasn't it?
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moonbeam




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 07 2015, 9:11 pm
youngishbear wrote:
The title was a clue, wasn't it?


Yes, it was, and I have no idea why this bashing and these awful attitudes are allowed.

We Jews have more than enough of the world against us right now, we really don't need to be tearing each other apart like this.
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Dolly Welsh




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 07 2015, 9:20 pm
eemachana wrote:
Puke

There is absolutely no point to this thread except to provoke and ridicule.

If anyone ever decides to start a pro-vax thread that's educational and rational and reasonable and states reputable studies, and is free of name calling and ridicule and finger pointing, feel free to PM me and I'll read it.

Otherwise I'm done dealing with all the unbased hatred and garbage.

Banging head


There has been a good bit of that recently, with a lot of very reasoned and science-based discussion from a doctor (Frumdoc), another poster who is a professional in the field of vaccine development, and other people. You might look at what Frantic Frummie has to say, and others.

It was all very smart, but I didn't pore over it too much, because I am totally pro-vax, and am way too old to have an issue with vaccinating small children.

The general consensus was that spacing them out a little might make some sense, for some babies or young children. A lot of people don't bother with that, and just use the recommended schedules, and do fine.

The anti-vax links were carefully shredded by people trained at the doctoral level to evaluate statistics and medical assertions.

When they were finished, there was nothing left of the anti-vax position but the buttons rolling disconsolately away. There was no basis at all to imagine vaccinating causing autism or anything else.

YES one poster, perhaps a few, did indeed have children react BADLY, dangerously, to being vaccinated. That poster had to give her baby mouth-to-mouth. Terrifying. Their experience was respected and noted. A certain high-pitched continuous cry was cautioned against, to watch out for.

Everybody agreed that a recently vaxxed child should be watched over carefully for any bad reaction.

Some stories were also told of damage and deaths from many preventable diseases, because of not vaxxing. These were in the poster's families, not the posters' own children.

Fear was expressed by mothers of infants still too young to vaccinate, living in measles-ridden areas; these mothers were keeping their babies home, and insisting any visitors have booster shots.

So there is plenty to look at in the threads here, but it will take patience to sort through it all.

But what you are asking for has already happened.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 07 2015, 9:30 pm
Putting the main topic aside for a moment, this got me thinking on a different scale. The first link is a very interesting psychological study on how societies police themselves.

If only we could handle anti Semitism the same way, by making it more shameful to shout things like "Death to the Jews" and "Back to the gas chambers". Oh, but that would be politically incorrect if we were to make anyone feel bad. Rolling Eyes Maybe Jews should come with a trigger warning.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 07 2015, 9:59 pm
imasoftov wrote:
This Anti-Vax Children’s Book Is Being Expertly Trolled In Its Amazon Reviews

http://uproxx.com/webculture/2.....iews/


If this wasn't so sad it would be hysterically funny. I could only imagine giving this as a gag gift - if I found it in a yard sale for a nickel.
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Laughing Bag!




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 07 2015, 10:12 pm
I think it's time we all agree to disagree.
The Pro-Vaxers will stay that way unless something drastic happens. And the Anti-Vaxers will stay that way until something drastic happens. I doubt anyonee will get convinced by all this hate, bashing, shaming, naming............... going on here and everywhere else.
Forcing someone to believe somethinv they don't ain't gonna happen especially with all the negativity, if anything it would push them away further. Let them all figure it out themselves for good or for bad.
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youngishbear




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 07 2015, 10:17 pm
If the antis wouldn't be so intent on proselytizing I would shut up.

But there has to be a dissenting voice to the nonsense, one as deep and reassuring as the antivax one is shrill and alarming.

Those on the fence should hear the facts, not just the scaremongering.
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Dolly Welsh




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 07 2015, 10:45 pm
May I remark that something drastic IS happening?

There are measles outbreaks all over the place. The incidence of bad reactions to the vaccines remain rare. Measles is not rare, and there are many locales where it is rampant.

Whooping cough too, though right now measles is the bigger story.

These things come in natural peaks and waves, but they are happening. There's a thread right now about whooping cough in the house with a two week old baby.

A British woman recently wrote an article saying her parents didn't vax her, and she had all the diseases. She lived to write the article. She lamented that her whole childhood was one disease after another, with pain and misery, and lost schooling, that her vaxxed friends didn't have to go through. She wished her parents had vaxed. She had no idea why she had to go through all that pain.
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Laughing Bag!




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 07 2015, 11:03 pm
youngishbear wrote:
If the antis wouldn't be so intent on proselytizing I would shut up.

But there has to be a dissenting voice to the nonsense, one as deep and reassuring as the antivax one is shrill and alarming.

Those on the fence should hear the facts, not just the scaremongering.


I hope you realize that the pro vaxers are scaremongering just the same. Pro vaxers are using the scare tactic for the disease while anti vaxers are using it over the vaccine. Same story different details. IMVHO.
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Dolly Welsh




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 07 2015, 11:09 pm
It isn't scare-mongering when there are so many cases of the diseases. You can regard sick children calmly or scaredly but they exist. It's not "mongering" it's just there to see and count.

Bad vaccine reactions are real too, but they are not catching. Therefore their numbers remain few. The diseases are very catching. Measles in particular is very catching.

It's not "scare tactic" it's just there. You can feel any emotion you want. The usual one is to be scared.

There is no "this might happen, oh dear" on the pro-vax side. It IS happening.
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amother


 

Post Sat, Feb 07 2015, 11:17 pm
Dolly Welsh wrote:
May I remark that something drastic IS happening?

There are measles outbreaks all over the place. The incidence of bad reactions to the vaccines remain rare. Measles is not rare, and there are many locales where it is rampant.

Whooping cough too, though right now measles is the bigger story.

These things come in natural peaks and waves, but they are happening. There's a thread right now about whooping cough in the house with a two week old baby.

A British woman recently wrote an article saying her parents didn't vax her, and she had all the diseases. She lived to write the article. She lamented that her whole childhood was one disease after another, with pain and misery, and lost schooling, that her vaxxed friends didn't have to go through. She wished her parents had vaxed. She had no idea why she had to go through all that pain.

Oh and did anyone change their mind over it. No they haven't and have you even tried to sympathize with all those people who have adverse reactions to the vaccine and have to live with life long illnesses or dead relatives. No you haven't because just like all the others including 'doctors, scientists and professionals...' are all doing the same thing diging your head in the sand and denying the relationship. Its all coincidence, oh yeah way to many coincidence happening in the same sequence. Its time somebody takes it serious. Besides if vaccines are so effective why does it still have so many flaws. The so called 'herd immunity ' percentage still is at their 90-95% vaccinated and still there is so much of 'vaccine preventable diseases ' going around. They usually say they don't know who started it and finish their sentence by blaming the unvaccinated. That's all about blaming without reason or just to keep their head buried in the sand.
Yes something drastic is happening and its happening on both ends.
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youngishbear




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 07 2015, 11:17 pm
[quote="Laughing Bag!"]I hope you realize that the pro vaxers are scaremongering just the same. Pro vaxers are using the scare tactic for the disease while anti vaxers are using it over the vaccine. Same story different details.


Fact: Diseases are scary.

Fact: Side effects of vaccines can be scary, look out for a, b, and c.

But the cost/benefit total is that vaccines save lives, at miniscule risk.

That final fact is debated over and over. What is there to argue about, FGS?

Does reminding people of the crippling effects of polio (rarely in front of our modern eyes anymore, thanks to vaccines) count as scaremongering.

Pro-vaxxers are trying to eradicate disease and make the world a better place for us all.

Anti-vaxxers believe in a grand conspiracy and deliberate deterioriation of public health by government in cahoots with Big Pharma.

Enough with the nonsense and inventing dangers when there are very real ones we need to fight.
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Dolly Welsh




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 07 2015, 11:31 pm
"still there is so much of 'vaccine preventable diseases ' going around. They usually say they don't know who started it and finish their sentence by blaming the unvaccinated. "

People move around a lot now.

The new cases are started by people coming from areas where widespread vaccinating does not happen.

These new patients test the vaccines. Vaccines do indeed wear off over time. This didn't use to matter, because the diseases were nearly wiped out. But now new cases come in from other areas of the world.

We are all sympathetic to incidents of bad reactions to vaccines.

We have heard of one here in particular, and there may have been a few. Vaxxing has been under discussion a lot here recently, and there has been little mention of bad reactions.

That does not mean we don't care.

It does mean it doesn't happen much. Whereas the diseases are becoming common. One poster said "I live in a measles area", worrying about her baby. "A measles area." Charming.

Nobody has ever claimed the vaccines are perfect and always prevent disease.

They usually do. That is all one can get in an imperfect word: some people don't develop the immunity. But it's enough, if everybody vaccinated.

Including all over the world.

To hold off vaccinating, when it's affordable and easy, is to mock people who wish they could get vaccines, and other modern proper health care, overseas.

Vaccinating is part of the lifestyle they seek by coming to the US in the first place, but they haven't had them yet, so they bring the diseases here. One cannot fault THEM. THEY would vaccinate, if they only could have, back home.

And each new case gives the disease another chance to mutate.

THAT may decrease the effectiveness of the vaccines over time: THAT may be what is bothering you. Well, it's the new, unnecessary, cases that are doing that!

We need to use what we have. The perfect is the enemy of the good.
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