Article: The Anti-Vaccine Movement Should Be Ridiculed

Think1st

Sun, Feb 08 2015, 8:13 pm

Dolly Welsh wrote:

You cannot educate yourself.

That is the big nonsense.

There is no such thing as self-taught doctor or vaccine scientist.

This is about Mumps. It is about Idaho. It seems to be a website about outbreaks.

That is not "educating yourself". You can read this website all day and still not be a doctor or a vaccine scientist.

http://outbreaknewstoday.com/I.....6348/

The most common complication of mumps infection in adults is testicular inflammation, which can lead to infertility.

So kindly read your article carefully, adults males who did not have mumps as a kid, are at risk of becoming infertile.

Since when do need to be a doctor vaccine scientist, to simple number crunching. Al you need is half a brain common sense & want to know the truth

Last edited by Think1st on Sun, Feb 08 2015, 8:54 pm; edited 1 time in total

youngishbear

Sun, Feb 08 2015, 8:16 pm

Think1st wrote:

The most common complication of mumps infection in adults is testicular inflammation, which can lead to infertility.

So kindly read your article carefully, adults males who did not have mumps as a kid, are at risk of becoming infertile.

Since when do need to be as doctor vaccine scientist, to simple number crunching. Al you need is half a brain common sense & want to know the truth

They're all telling you that it's not simple. And if you think it is, you need med school.

If it would be simple we would all be doctors.

Dolly Welsh

Sun, Feb 08 2015, 8:20 pm

Exactly. A dangerous disease is reappearing in Idaho. Vaccinate, vaccinate.

I suppose you are in favor of vaccinating for Mumps, as you state its horrible and avoidable danger of male infertility?

Number crunching is never simple.

Common sense will not get you into an understanding of statistics. Or physiology.

This isn't economics. Even that isn't simple.

This is about living processes, which aren't neatly and rigidly consistent, like a machine, and which have hard to understand dynamics and mechanisms.

"Numbers" isn't the half of it.

I was impressed by Frumdoc's post and offer. I didn't know half the words she was using.

Think1st

Sun, Feb 08 2015, 9:02 pm

Dolly Welsh wrote:

When you vaccinate for mumps & you don't get it as a kid you are danger of becoming infertile from it as an adult ( not you your boys)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....rate/

look how USA is falling behind in infant mortality

Dolly Welsh

Sun, Feb 08 2015, 9:10 pm

Are you saying the Mumps vaccine does not protect males from getting this disease?

We are not discussing infant mortality which includes many other factors besides vaccinating.

My strong guess, and it's only a guess, is that US infant mortality rates are high because of the later age of childbearing in the US. The age of the mother, particularly first time mother, is driving that, is what first comes to mind. US non-religious women adore to put off childbearing until deep into their thirties, which carries risk.

That correlates with higher educational levels of women. The countries with better infant health have lower educational levels of their women.

So are you saying the Mumps vaccine wears off?

Wouldn't it be better to have so much vaccinating against Mumps that it was rare to be exposed to it at all? We used to have that, before the anti-vax movement.

Yes, people have also brought Mumps into the US. But part of its success in the US is caused by its finding a foothold with the never-vaccinated, not just the no-longer-protected, once-vaccinated.

mille

Sun, Feb 08 2015, 9:16 pm

Think1st wrote:

The most common[ complication of mumps infection in adults is testicular inflammation, which can lead to infertility.

So kindly read your article carefully, adults males who did not have mumps as a kid, are at risk of becoming infertile.

Since when do need to be a doctor vaccine scientist, to simple number crunching. Al you need is half a brain common sense & want to know the truth

You have already proven yourself to be laughably incapable of basic statistics. I agree that anyone can LEARN how to be critical and analyze scientific studies, but I do not believe that you have even the faintest grasp of this ability. Frumdoc has offered multiple times to help you learn, given advice on books to read, and many of us have pointed out the flaws in your "simple number crunching", but you insist that we are wrong and you are right.

You claim that we have no sources or aren't reading your sources, but we do. We refute them, thoroughly (as Dolly pointed out in her absolutely wonderful post). But you can't see the arguments through your thick fog of confirmation bias.

It's really sad to see someone so unwilling to learn and grow in their knowledge.

Last edited by mille on Sun, Feb 08 2015, 11:11 pm; edited 1 time in total

Think1st

Sun, Feb 08 2015, 9:17 pm

Dolly Welsh wrote:

The article you quoted said the greatest risk is for adult males.every few years they add some booster vaccines, because what was given until now did NOT protect well enough or is wearing off. that is how adults who did not get real immunity from actual mumps,get their chance to get the real thing & pay the heavy price of infertilty

Think1st

Sun, Feb 08 2015, 9:21 pm

Frumdoc wrote:

Of course!

It may have to be a correspondence course, as I don't live in the US and I doubt many of you would be willing to move to Europe just for this Wink

And you don't need to be a doctor, you need to be an educated patient and parent. And it is fun, learning about the body!

Thank you , I can setup a conference call, please provide schedule so I can set up the call

Dolly Welsh

Sun, Feb 08 2015, 10:08 pm

No one every claimed vaccines don't wear off. That used to be ok, because the diseases had become so rare.

The immunity from having had Mumps as a child can also wear off! Any immunity at all can wear off.

The anti-vax movement has kept the reservoirs of Mumps alive in the US, so now adults who haven't had boosters can get it.

Also unvaccinated children coming into the US. Some of those may be bringing it with them, but some may be getting it in the US before they have a chance to become vaccinated in the US, because of those reservoirs in the US.

And, a young boy can also become infertile from having it in childhood; you imply childhood is a safe time to have it, without risking infertility. That's not true.

southernbubby

Sun, Feb 08 2015, 10:12 pm

My daughter is trying to find a frum pre-school for her toddler and the one she wanted originally has very low vaccination rates and she does not want to send him there because of an infant at home.

The vaccine debate may end up dividing communities.

Frumdoc

Mon, Feb 09 2015, 5:26 am

Think1st wrote:

Thank you , I can setup a conference call, please provide schedule so I can set up the call

Sure. As a formal learning session, there is some pre reading to be done.

LESSON 1: Statistics

Please read this

www.well.ox.ac.uk/~kanishka/.......s.pdf

It is a brief (90 page) free booklet on the basics of statistics for medical students.

When you are done, let me know and I will send you a short quiz, and I will mark it. The tutorial will be the discussion of your answers and comprehension.

I think 2 weeks gives plenty of time for you to read it 3 or 4 times. As it is your first lesson I can be generous, please let me know when you are ready for your written quiz.

Frumdoc

Mon, Feb 09 2015, 5:37 am

Sorry, that link may not work

Go to this website

http://www.well.ox.ac.uk/~kani.....shtml

And click on the hyperlink on notes for his first lecture series.

" The lecture slides, notes and practical sessions were written by Dr YY Teo. I am using them with his permission."

Any problems and I can send you a pdf copy, but it should be simple for anyone with a decent brain to access.

imasoftov

Mon, Feb 09 2015, 6:58 am

sky wrote:

A banana has 16 mg\kg of formaldehyde. Is it dangerous to feed to my child? That is about how many banans my child may eat over the course of a week.

Also, bananas are radioactive!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B....._dose

Fine print- "the radiation exposure from consuming a banana is approximately 1% of the average daily exposure to radiation"

sky

Mon, Feb 09 2015, 6:06 pm

imasoftov wrote:

Also, bananas are radioactive!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B....._dose

Fine print- "the radiation exposure from consuming a banana is approximately 1% of the average daily exposure to radiation"

I'm still waiting to here if people who don't vax don't eat any food containing formaldehyde and why it is dangerous.

Apple
Apricot
Banana
Beetroot
Onions
Cabbage
Carrot
Cauliflower
Cucumber
Grape
Green Onion
Kohlrabi
Pear
Plum
Potato
Spinach
Tomato
Watermelon
White Radish
Beef
Poultry