Poll: eruv--yae or nay?

greenfire

Sat, Feb 07 2015, 9:31 pm

when you come from an area where there is no eruv you start wondering what it's all about ... we lose sight of not carrying, etc. and forget it's not really allowed in a place where there is no eruv ...

but what I ultimately realized is that while everybody doesn't use the eruv - there's an entire gemarra written up about eruv ... which means that within the right context it is allowable

when you have little kids it's quite hard to be stuck at home if you don't use eruv

a note that many do not realize is that even within an eruv - you can't just carry any ole thing ... you can only carry that which you need ... so no carrying that extra outfit for motzei shabbos, no carrying a siddur to & from shul unless you're actually using it at home afterward, etc.

so hilchos eruv is not so pashut

amother

Sat, Feb 07 2015, 11:51 pm

I could not vote because I live in Williamsburg. There is an invisible Eruv, which I, personally know that Rabbonim that give a hechsher on it. These Rabbonim are totally reliable. However, the people opposed to it have been harassing the "carriers" so that they are intimidated and afraid to carry openly.

so, yes I hold from the Eruv. Like Greenie, says, there is a whole gemara on the laws of Eruv. People that are against it should not carry and let everybody do as they please!!! Boro park had the same issue, but there is a visible eruv. I wish the opposition allows a visible Eruv in Williamburg too.

Laughing Bag!

Sun, Feb 08 2015, 1:55 am

I think it's both. When I was little we had no eiruv and later on it became the luxury we came to love. One can live without it but it definitely cmakes things easier if you have simchos on Shabbos or if you desperately want to get out especially on a long Shabbos it can become a necessity.
When I got married and moved to a city that has an eiruv but had machlokos over it. We AOLOR and were told to refrain from using it. So now that I don't use our local eiruv I find it a luxury when we get to use the eiruv when we go to different cities that didn't have all the machlokos enabling us to benefit from it. However when summer comes around and I have a non walking baby I feel it is totally a necessity. And when my babies walk you bet I'm out strolling up and down our block and then teach them to go further. And that happens only every other year 😃.

amother

Sun, Feb 08 2015, 2:36 am

Couldn't respond to poll as I live in a city with an eruv but only about half the city uses it. I use it (our Rav says it's fine) but many friends don't. So we go to them for shabbos meals, play dates etc. I host them on yom tov. Total lifesaver with little kids but I grew up in an area without an eruv and we were totally fine. We just found what to do in the house but we also just weren't used to it so it wasn't a big deal. You'd be surprised how resourceful kids can be to entertain themselves. We also had a backyard which helps...
So basically, now that I have it I would hate to lose it but if we did, I would find a way around it. Maybe have my husband learn at home so I can take a walk by myself, see a friend on the long shabbos afternoon for a half hour etc.

chani8

Sun, Feb 08 2015, 2:50 am

We have an eruv in our town, and rely on it, but we also go outside of it almost every shobbos, on our shobbos hike. We are careful to not carry, that's all. It requires an awareness and planning.

We see it as a basic expectation for a town, that it should have an eruv.

Can you expound more, OP, about what your debate is about?

luppamom

Sun, Feb 08 2015, 2:56 am

I grew up w/ an eruv. For a little while, I lived in a city w/ a controversial eruv, so I learned how "not" to use an eruv. The hardest part for me (pre-stroller days) was not being able to take tissues. I have allergies and my nose often randomly runs. Now, I have an eruv but DH really only likes to use it when we have to, which means the stroller, but he tries not to take any random things that we don't use w/ us. I don't know what I'd do w/o an eruv. I would feel very trapped as I don't have a backyard or even a porch. I need to go outside.

Iymnok

Sun, Feb 08 2015, 5:54 am

DH is machmir and doesn't use most eruvs. He says he won't push his chumras on me, so I push the stroller and he puts his hat, coat, siddur, tallis or whatever else in it. This is in most of Jerusalem.

luppamom

Sun, Feb 08 2015, 6:20 am

Iymnok wrote:

Just make sure he pushes it on YT! LOL! My father and mother were the same way and guess who got to push the stroller on YT Smile

out-of-towner

Sun, Feb 08 2015, 8:45 am

Iymnok wrote:

My DH was like this...the Eruv is fine but he saw no need to use it, but was fine with me using it. When our second kid was born, I told him that I needed him to use it and he now has.

amother

Sun, Feb 08 2015, 10:22 am

amother wrote:

What is an invisible eruv?

Mrs Bissli

Sun, Feb 08 2015, 12:05 pm

I am the OP who created the polls. We currently have an eruv that is accepted by most people (I'm inclined to say maybe 10-15% of people won't use it at most), though I was housebound on Shabbatot for several years when our children were very small before we lived in a different city. Interestingly, we noticed back then there were many families who would push strollers anyway even when there're was no eruv. So our guests and I were debating if the community would have still attracted young families even without an eruv.

Our current eruv is unobstructed, rather than 'invisible' in a sense it relies on some existing natural barriers and boundaries, supplemented by very thin but durable wires that are almost hard to see to untrained naked eyes. Sorry to hear intra-communal conflict on the usage of eruv--one of the largest eruv in London is quite controversial (in a sense it relies on a large motorway to function as a part of its boundary), some rabbis definitely expect their congregants not to use the eruv but they have enough respect for other rabbis and congregants who endorse its use.

amother

Sun, Feb 08 2015, 12:10 pm

Mrs Bissli, I am in Golders Green and I'd say over 75% of people here and people I know don't carry. Maybe your 10-15% is in a slightly different area.

I'd very much like to carry, and shabbos trapped indoors with the kids for hours ie upto 10.30pm in the summer really affects my mental health however my rav doesn't allow it and my community doesn't use it, and if I did it would also cause great upset to my family.

amother

Sun, Feb 08 2015, 9:40 pm

Having grown up without one and reared my children to adulthood without one, I consider it at best a luxury and at worst a form of legalized cheating. (If they can find a way to make it possible to carry on Shabbos, why can't they find a way to free agunot and women mesuravot get?)
I now live in an area with an eruv that's been hotly contested forever, with group A saying anyone who uses it is mechalel Shabbos, group B saying if you don't want to use it don't use it but the Group A rav isn't our posek and has no authority over us, and group C saying we have nothing against it but can't use it out of consideration for the feelings of our friends in group A (or maybe consideration of the future shidduch prospects of our dc who might want to marry into group A or at least be considered by Group A people as shidduch prospects for other people they know).

imasoftov

Mon, Feb 09 2015, 5:17 am

amother wrote:

(If they can find a way to make it possible to carry on Shabbos, why can't they find a way to free agunot and women mesuravot get?)

1) I think it's justified that we are more cautious with the latter, because if we're wrong about an eruv, probably the worst people are doing is violating a derabbanon, while if we make a mistake in the other areas we could create mamzerim.

2) I think some of the people who aren't just cautious but opposed to any solution are afraid that Jewish marriages are so terrible that women will all abandon their husbands if allowed. On my nastier days, I wonder if they mean women in general or their own wives. Although I wouldn't put it past some of the same people to also think that it's a good idea to keep women stuck at home because there's no eruv at least until their children are old enough ...

3) I support helping people both by building eruvin and working to halachically end marriages that have failed.

Last edited by imasoftov on Mon, Feb 09 2015, 7:56 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Mon, Feb 09 2015, 6:49 am

amother wrote:

I am also in GG and for sure at least 75% of the people I know use the eruv. It totally depends on your shul and your Rov, and your derech. Sure, anyone who holds by Rabbi Roberts or R Chuna or most of chassidish shteiblach won't, but many many do, and even some of the anti Rabbonim will privately say it is ok, I have spoken to them about it when dealing with my disabled father.

When I lived in Hendon it was the same, most did, a few didn't, but we all respected each other whatever. The ones who don't usually have their non jewish girl pushing their baby along, often on the phone at the same time - now that I find hard to see.