French Kids Eat Everything

southernbubby

Sun, Feb 15 2015, 5:54 am

http://bikores.blogspot.com/20.....92035

I was sent this blog article today about how frum parents have become very permissive when it comes to snacks and between meal eating, to the detriment of their children's health. Apparently in France, those families that have not slipped into Western ways, serve home made adult food to their families with no hot dog alternatives for those kids who don't like what is on the menu. Because there are no snacks, a hungry child will eat what is served. The American approach of letting children dictate what is served is not favored by the French. While the French are getting fatter as they adopt American style eating habits, currently their obesity rates are far below those of Americans:

http://www.npr.org/2011/08/06/.....r-too

Can Americans and frum families turn back the clock on permissive eating?

zaq

Sun, Feb 15 2015, 8:25 am

Can they? yes. Will they? no. Because healthier food takes effort and advance planning, two ideas that have fallen out of favor. There is a small "slow food" movement in the US but its proponents are still seen as mildly nuts if not downright subversive.

Healthier food is also more expensive, no matter what the Barbara Kingsolvers of the world may say. Sure, when you live on a farm and grow your own, healthy food is cheap--but what about us city dwellers whose food has to be hauled from afar? We cannot all grow tomatoes on our windowsills, kwim? White carbs are cheap; whole-grains can cost twice as much if not more, and very seldom go on special. Hot dogs are one of the cheapest forms of meat, though kosher dogs cost as much as tref steak, at least where I live. Fish costs almost as much as meat.

My response to any kid who said he was not hungry for whatever was being served was "If you are not hungry for ______, you are not hungry." It is Ok for a kid to skip supper now and then; it is not ok for a kid to be pandered to.

Scrabble123

Sun, Feb 15 2015, 10:38 am

I grew up in a house with no snacking at all. If you were hungry, you ate regular food. If you were hungry in between meals, you ate a few nuts, a fruit, or something substantial. We were served what we were served and if we didn't like, we didn't eat. I'm a pretty big believer in that: you don't have to intentionally make foods that your children do not like, but if you serve it and it is on a plate, a child cannot insist on having it taken out. A plate is big enough to accommodate a variety of foods, and children will eat what they like. They will develop their own palate, but there is nothing wrong with not allowing a child to eat cereal and milk because he did not like supper. Nothing will happen if he is hungry one night while going to bed. Obviously if it is a continuous problem, then an underlying issue needs to be addressed, but I definitely have issues with the lax, eat what you please attitude of so many I know. And it carries over into way more than food....

Tablepoetry

Sun, Feb 15 2015, 11:29 am

Scrabble123 wrote:

I get where you're coming from, but at what age do you draw the line? When does it become a battle not worth fighting? Would you argue with a 12 or 15 year old that s/he isn't allowed to eat cereal? It seems almost draconian.

An interesting sidenote,though, that I've noticed in Israel is that picky eaters are far more common in ashkenazi families.

bigsis144

Sun, Feb 15 2015, 11:46 am

So one of you teach me how to un-picky my 5 year old.

He used to eat everything, and I cooked a wide variety of meals -- curries, whole wheat pasta, a zillion types of roast vegetables, etc.

Now he's so sensitive to tastes and smells that he refuses to SIT AT THE TABLE when DH and I are eating dinner and the stir fry or soup or whatever "smells too strong". Telling him to take "just one bite" leads him to cry for half an hour beforehand, then touch it with the tip of his tongue, then wipe his tongue on the tablecloth, the wall, his brother's shirt, etc.

It's a stupid power struggle and if his pediatrician says fortified cereal and milk is okay, I won't let people tell me I'm a bad mother.

Scrabble123

Sun, Feb 15 2015, 12:03 pm

Tablepoetry wrote:

I think that 12/15 year olds are mature and old enough to decide to not eat and eat cereal and milk instead. They are old enough to know that it is not something you approve of, and that it sends a bad message to the other children, but I don't really think you should be fighting with teenagers who serve themselves even when they know you'd prefer they wouldn't. I'd just ignore it, unless it was happening everyday and causing other problems in the family. At that point, I'd try to figure something else out.

bigsis144 wrote:

Why is it a fight? And where does bad mother come into the picture. It's just two different styles of individuals.

"Tonight we are eating stir fried soup. You must sit at the table during supper time. You don't have to eat it, but I cannot serve you anything else because this is what I cooked. I hope you'll like tomorrow's supper more. I also have desert (which can even be orange juice or something better like ice cream), but I cannot serve you desert unless you eat a decent amount of supper (and I'm still not forcing you to eat it)." I don't believe in forcing children to eat things that they do not like. Usually a full meal will have something a kid will eat, and if it doesn't, well then he'll be just fine until breakfast time. As I said, if it is something extreme that is constant, then it needs to be addressed differently and possibly with a professional.

piegirl

Mon, Feb 16 2015, 5:49 am

bigsis144 wrote:

research sensory processing disorders and see if he has any other symptoms

gp2.0

Mon, Feb 16 2015, 5:50 am

bigsis144 wrote:

Yeah, I'm totally with you on this. We destroy our kids' instincts by forcing them to eat everything. Judging by the "eating mindfully" movement, we would do well to listen to what our kids want, making sure they get nutrients in a way they can enjoy.

My DD also ate a wide variety of foods from 6 months up to age 3-4. She didn't even like sandwiches until she was 3! She ate whatever we ate. Now she regularly likes about 15 foods, and they are IT. Let's see, I'll count 'em.

1. Bread and butter
2. Egg drop soup (only from one specific store)
3. Pickles
4. Salmon from a can with bones (thank G-d)
5. Egg whites with cheese
6. Oatmeal with tons of sugar
7. Processed chicken nuggets doused in ketchup
8. Franks
9. Pizza
10. French Fries
11. Cereal and milk
12. Yogurt with fun add-ins
13. Broccoli
14. Pasta with ketchup

So let's see, that's 2 vegetables, 5 extremely processed foods, 5 carb-based foods with not enough nutrition to combat added sugars, and only 2 good protein-based foods.

But I still value, and I want her to value, what her body is telling her. If her body is telling her that my stir-fry makes her vomit, I'm not even going to make her sit at the table, let alone make her eat it.

sneakermom

Mon, Feb 16 2015, 7:13 am

I hate force. I hate rigidity. Just not my style. Why do things have to be such a big deal? I find the less you power struggle with kids the less they resist. I serve supper. You like it eat it. You don't like it, figure something out. Just don't bother me about it.

My youngest is very picky so I do make sure to have some basics in the house that she will eat. Eventually she will outgrow the picky ness without harsh memories of someone making her stare at a plate for a half a day.

Barbara

Mon, Feb 16 2015, 7:33 am

bigsis144 wrote:

Wait a few years, and it will change again.

There are foods I simply won't eat (lamb of any kind, chicken wings, chicken breasts with bones). On the rare occasion I cook them, I make sure that there is another alternative for me, usually leftovers.

I really don't understand why our children are not entitled to the same respect with regards to food choices. That doesn't mean that they get mac and cheese from a box every night. It means that when DS said that the smell of tuna made him sick, and he couldn't be in the same room with it, I respected that the smell of tuna made him sick, and didn't shove it on his plate and say "eat it or eat around it." And that if I make a meal that I know he dislikes, I ensure there is an alternative for him.

zaq

Mon, Feb 16 2015, 8:35 am

sneakermom wrote:

I serve supper. You like it eat it. You don't like it, figure something out. Just don't bother me about it.

My feelings word for word, or what I call the "benign neglect" model of parenting. I liked to say this was a deliberately planned modus operandi based on careful consideration and analysis of all available models, but careful consideration has little to do with it. There is just no way I am going to cater to multiple individual tastes where there is no health concern. Point blank "ein Bimkom" (there is no substitute offered). You want choices, go to a restaurant, or DIY..

southernbubby

Mon, Feb 16 2015, 8:39 am

zaq wrote:

I did the same thing when I was raising children but now that they are adults, they feel that I should have been more on top of the food situation.

amother

Mon, Feb 16 2015, 8:57 am

Our food was always regulated when we were kids. We were served 3 healthful (rather plain) meals a day and there was never any nosh in the house. If I told my mom I was hungry she would tell me to drink a cup of skim milk! She rarely gave us anything for lunch other than peanut butter and jelly. I guess on a non school day she would allow grilled cheese. But let me tell you something. I don't want to drink milk or eat anymore peanut butter - and I'm a grown woman!! I also feel that since we were not allowed to take food on our own I am enjoying my freedom now and eat as often as I want .... hence a weight issue now. I still want to taste the nosh I was deprived of .... and eat a few slices of pizza we were never allowed. I crave sugared cereal as an adult since sugared cereal was a big no-no. So, I don't believe in regulating children's food. As adults, when they are on their own they will probably develop some sort of eating disorder. Sure, as parents we should cut back on the sugary foods but let them try it every once in a while and I can assure you that they will reach out for the cut up veggies instead of the potato chips when they are allowed to have all kinds of foods. I am paying for it now. Don't do this to your kids. And mealtime should NEVER be a battle. Serve frozen pizza and corn flakes but don't tell your kids that they have to eat the chicken or else.

Fox

Mon, Feb 16 2015, 10:45 am

Does anyone else notice that there are no perfect answers coming out of this conversation?

* Force your kid to eat whatever's being served, and you're paving the way for food issues and power struggles.

* Let your kid eat what he wants, and you're a co-conspirator in promoting bad eating habits.

* Prohibit snacks, and you're setting the stage for food hoarding, sneaking, and stealing.

* Maintain a laissez-faire approach to snacks, and you're abetting bad or at least lazy eating habits.

* Insist your kid eat only healthful foods when his peers are snacking on processed foods, and you create a kid who is constantly scheming to get non-healthful treats.

* Allow your kid to develop a taste for processed and sweetened foods, and he'll lose his taste for the more subtle flavors of natural foods.

Honestly, none of us can win!

Do your best to serve healthful foods; do your best to get kids to try new things; keep fruit, cut-up veggies, and hard-boiled eggs for snacks; and try not to worry too much.

Keep in mind that whatever we're told to do today may well be reversed in a few years. When I was growing up, eating between meals was nearly a capital crime. Today it's believed that more frequent, smaller meals are better at regulating blood sugar and boosting metabolism. Eggs and meat used to be the bad guys; now they're touted for their role in creating satiation.

Like the line from the classic British sitcom, "Are You Being Served?", you're all doing very well!

southernbubby

Mon, Feb 16 2015, 11:03 am

It would seem to me that allowing certain foods at certain times such as a parties or on Shabbos would at least give the child a chance to eat his sugared cereal once a week so that he or she would not spend her whole life longing for it. Most kids know how to go to the corner store and spend their money on candy and chips throughout the week. Do they really want to be overweight? Does the child cry about her complexion and then reach for chips? BTW, oily foods such as chips still give me pimples so I don't believe that there is no connection between acne and food. I know a family where there are several kids, all with moderate to severe weight issues. One child in the family refuses to eat the way that the others eat. She does not want to end up with the family curse. She rejects having all her food drowned in mayo or saturated in grease. For her, it is fruits and veggies all the way. The others wish that they had done the same when they were younger because now those habits are harder to break.

morah

Mon, Feb 16 2015, 11:16 am

Every time I hear the French put up on a pedestal, I LOL. I have a French parent and an American parent, so I was raised with elements of both styles. Both have their pluses and minuses. What the "French do it better" crowd fail to account for is the fact that kids who are a little different (learning differences, not neurotypical, etc) are treated disgracefully in France. My French father, who has been a practicing pediatrician in America for the last 25 years will be the first to tell you that it is not so simple and that while the French do some things better, there are a lot of other things the Americans do better.

mommy321

Mon, Feb 16 2015, 12:00 pm

My husband is European, super skinny, and was raised to eat whatever was served and there was no discussion.

In Shana Rishona I'd get so frustrated that he'd never tell me if he didn't like something (even when it was really bad). Finally I figured out that in his house there was never any such thing.

He also didn't eat in restaurants (this was a secular family). It was like- why?

p.s. my MIL's food (to me) is AWFUL. But it didn't matter. That was what a normal family ate like.

With our kids he's the same, and I just try not to say too much either way since I grew up totally differently, and...they really eat nicely.