French Kids Eat Everything

southernbubby

Tue, Feb 17 2015, 5:09 pm

questioner wrote:

Yes, and we do order fruits as needed, but I still haven't found anywhere willing to deliver me 2 apples and one banana daily!
I'm waiting for Amazon to fill the niche. I would gladly set a Subscribe and Save order for a loaf of whole wheat bread, bottle of milk and some fruit twice a week or so and offload it from my mind.

If you have a freezer you could keep some spare bread and milk in there and there are gas stations and truck stops that sell very nice fresh fruit. They have it in airports and probably even in those dinky urban corner groceries they have some fruit. Manhattan street vendors sell it too. It can't be that scarce or hard to find but I do agree that amazon prime members should be entitled to free delivery 2X per week of a couple pieces of fruit.

Fox

Tue, Feb 17 2015, 5:48 pm

Like I said, there are plenty of tricks and tips to do better. Applesauce is a great idea; making an extra stop at a gas station or convenience store -- not so much. In my case, I found that hard-boiled eggs were the best solution.

But all of these ideas only underscore the reality that good food takes time and/or money, and that's something that American families have very little to spare.

That's no doubt a definite problem in our culture, but it's not a problem that individual families can solve unless they can afford a SAHM.

I am increasingly beginning to see many health initiatives as another misogynistic campaign against average women. Whether it's healthful eating habits, breast-feeding, or fitness, it's like Marie Antoinette suggesting French peasants eat cake.

Yes, all these endeavors are factually correct. But they have begun to constitute another source of responsibility and guilt dumped into the laps of women who can least afford it.

southernbubby

Tue, Feb 17 2015, 6:05 pm

Fox wrote:

Hard boiled eggs are a great solution so what is so time consuming about making those? Even if kids have fruit half the week and chips the other half, it is still not everyday eating chips. Why can't men shop too? Men can shop and cook and help prepare lunch. They can stand in line at the supermarket after work just like women can. And if the mother has absolutely no choice but to feed a poor diet than that is her lot in life but most of us are not that bad off that we can't make better choices. Corn flakes are a healthier choice than corn chips. What is wrong with snacking on dry cereal? Most of it is low in calories or at least lower than chips.

ven

Tue, Feb 17 2015, 6:15 pm

I am from belgium. Not that far from france.. Anyway this is how I was brought up: mothers work really hard to bring a decent meal to the table. U ( as a member of the family) have two choices: u eat the meal , thank the cook for the effort and clean your plate. Or u don' t like the food, show the cook your gratitude anyway and go to bed without snacking and try again the next day. no fuss , no stress, u eat it or u dont , your choice . But if u dont like the meal its nothing else until next meal. Simple and straightforward. ( this is an adult rule to ! ) so yes dh to !
Ps: I work 40 hours a week and have a commute of 60 minutes. I still cook every day

rosenbal

Tue, Feb 17 2015, 6:31 pm

Raisin wrote:

even apples go bad.

I don't think we are doing our children any favours to bring them up to dislike numerous common foods. Of course, there are always several foods a person may dislike intensely, but when the list is very long and includes many common foods (such as chicken, tuna, salmon, etc) it can really interfere with your social and personal life, as well as your spouse and family.

True, but not all kids are the same. Period. One of my kids is basically a freak eater with a list if foods he eats...my others are normal (from average preschool picky stage to super healthy). They were all brought up in the same environment. Once upon a time, I might have dreamed of what scrabble or other very by the book people are saying, but then life happens!

I am a sleep trainer, by the way, so it's not that I'm such a laid back personality...but kids certainly help teach you the lesson that you are NOT in charge of your life! Sometimes G-d throws you a curveball whether it's a kid that ears 15 foods or has ADHD or whatever. It's up to us to adapt and that's all part of "hanoch l'naar al pi darcho."

P.S. I know my crazy eater kid can go to special therapy to learn to eat (I think it's a subspecialty of speech therapy) but he has to want to do it. It can't be forced at his age. Hopefully before shidduchim LOL.

amother

Wed, Feb 18 2015, 12:16 pm

Re: the 'mommy wars/misogyny' perspective- I hear and appreciate what you're saying.
But let's take it a step further.

Men are not making us feel bad. We've misogynized ourSELVES by accepting a 'deal' where we're out of the home. We're then forced to cut every corner possible, including our health and our family's health, to fill in a blank void in every home where the home-most-of-the-time mommy is supposed to be. We've underestimated the value and importance of our own role, by choosing to work out of the house.

Food, yes, takes a LOT of time, organizing, and effort. So does laundry. So do children. So does shopping (for food and everything else). So does mending. So does ironing. So does marriage. So does our self-care, which is very important. So does upkeep and organization of the home. So do things like thank-you notes, Rosh H cards, invitations, mitzvah notes, family phone calls, etc.

I'm tired of hearing that these things are 'impossible'- they're not, it's just that we've decided that our career is more important. We have decided that 'no big deal, I can have a career and juggle everything else somehow.'
The problem is, it's not 'everything else'- it's a full-time job in itself.

Husbands have to work hard (as hard as we're working as homemakers) to support us financially. We, in turn, have to be super-frugal and resourceful since yes, there is only one income. This is how it worked for many, many generations until recently.

And yes I believe in Limud Ha Torah. I'm tired of seeing it, though, on the cheshbon of the children's childhoods and the kavod ha brios of the homes. A working man should just figure out how to learn as much as possible, while earning enough in his working hours to provide for his family.

southernbubby

Wed, Feb 18 2015, 12:39 pm

amother wrote:

Re: the 'mommy wars/misogyny' perspective- I hear and appreciate what you're saying.
But let's take it a step further.

Men are not making us feel bad. We've misogynized ourSELVES by accepting a 'deal' where we're out of the home. We're then forced to cut every corner possible, including our health and our family's health, to fill in a blank void in every home where the home-most-of-the-time mommy is supposed to be. We've underestimated the value and importance of our own role in choosing to work out of the house.

Food, yes, takes a LOT of time, organizing, and effort. So does laundry. So do children. So does shopping (for food and everything else). So does mending. So does ironing. So does marriage. So does our self-care, which is very important. So does upkeep and organization of the home. So do things like thank-you notes, Rosh H cards, invitations, mitzvah notes, family phone calls, etc.

I'm tired of hearing that these things are 'impossible'- they're not, it's just that we've decided that our career is more important. We have decided that 'no big deal, I can have a career and juggle everything else somehow.'
The problem is, it's not 'everything else'- it's a full-time job in itself.

Husbands have to work hard (as hard as we're working as homemakers) to support us financially. We, in turn, have to be super-frugal and resourceful since yes, there is only one income. This is how it worked for many, many generations until recently.

And yes I believe in Limud Ha Torah. I'm tired of seeing it, though, on the cheshbon of the children's childhoods and the kavod ha brios of the homes. A working man should just figure out how to learn as much as possible, while earning enough in his working hours to provide for his family.

I agree because those mothers who work feel attacked whenever anyone says that there are ways to get better nutrition, even when time and money are short. The mother who shops at Duane Reed and CVS should get one of those key ring cards from each of those stores because you get discounts there. CVS has coupons now for their house brand nuts and snack bars and these do offer more nutrition than cookies, candy, soda, and chips. These products are OU pareve and many of the nuts are natural. Duane Reed and Walgreens use the same key ring card and have senior citizens day once a month so send Zeidy to the store for you. They have dried fruit, canned salmon, cereal, etc that often go on sale or are cheaper on senior citizen day (20% off).
I know of working mothers who load supper in the crock pot in the morning so that it is ready when the family comes home in the evening.

saw50st8

Wed, Feb 18 2015, 12:48 pm

Fox wrote:

I think this is a very important part of the equation: purchase and preparation of the most healthful foods takes a lot of time -- time that mothers who work full- or even part-time simply don't have.

Years ago, a lovely SAHM from my children's elementary school attempted to start a campaign revolving around more healthful snacks.

The idea was well-intended and obviously correct. But this was a woman whose full-time job was shopping and preparing meals for her family. She was constantly sending broadcast emails about sales on various fruits and veggies at far-flung markets; she shared all her great ideas for cut-up veggie strips in delicious homemade dressing; she shared with everyone her "trick" of going to Sam's Club each week for the best produce.

Unfortunately, she added a lot of lighter fluid to the mommy wars. Since I'm a full-time WAHM, I usually have dogs (or at least puppies) in both sides of the fight. But mothers weren't giving their kids chips because they were ignorant about nutrition or just lazy; they were giving them chips because they could be bought in bulk once a month and stay fresh.

That, IMHO, is one of the biggest hurdles in helping kids develop good eating habits. I don't doubt that people in most European countries eat far better than Americans. They work fewer hours per week, shop more frequently, and have a higher percentage of mothers at home.

I once had the most ridiculous argument with an acquaintance of mine. She's a SAHM who maintains that she's just as busy (if not busier) than full time working parents and that there's no excuse for working parents to ever serve unhealthy food because there are ways around it. She claimed you could bbq chicken breast, zucchini and tomatoes within ten minutes of walking through your door. HAHAHAHAHA!!!!! It would take me ten minutes to convince my kids to let go long enough to take the chicken and vegetables out of the fridge, forget washing and slicing the vegetables, seasoning the chicken, going outside, turning on the BBQ, letting the food cook, bringing it inside and having the table set and ready. It was so much easier to serve nutritious meals when I was home. [It was ok for her to serve garbage during VBS week because she was "so busy" - like you can't prepare healthy food for ONE week in advance]

I don't understand why this is such a heated topic to some people. If you are a SAHM, by definition your job includes food shopping, prep, housekeeping skills and tending to children. Those are all things working parents cannot do while working. It should reason that you have more time to prepare food, then someone rushing in the door at 6 pm with a bunch of hungry kids.

My current rule I try to stick to is 1 unhealthy snack a week. The other days I try to give them apples, bananas, cut up cucumbers or peppers, cheese sticks etc. But some weeks my kids do get a few days of chips. I'm extremely busy and can't always put healthy food at the top of the list. Sometimes we only go shopping 2X a month.

zaq

Wed, Feb 18 2015, 1:32 pm

You cannot send a banana with kid for lunch or snack and expect it to be eaten. On the rare days when I am foolish enough to put a banana in my own lunch bag, it is sadly depreciated by the time I get to work. It is usually not so bad that I refuse to eat it, but then I am a Mom, with over 100 cumulative years of parenting under my belt. Not much scares me in the way of battered produce, the money that paid for that banana was earned by the sweat of my brow, the legs that stood in line to pay for it were also mine, and the hands that will mash it for banana bread if it is not eaten are STILL mine, so I may as well eat it. A six-year-old? Not so much. Trash bin, here we come!

Barbara

Wed, Feb 18 2015, 1:44 pm

southernbubby wrote:

Zeidy (my father) lives 150 miles away. The other Zeidy is closer. Well, his grave is. Bubby too. Not everyone has family that can wait on them.

Most schools have nut-free policies. That rules out nuts as well as every brand of granola bar that I'm aware of and, in fact, pretty much every packaged snack food other than chips and pretzels.

Barbara

Wed, Feb 18 2015, 2:01 pm

amother wrote:

The "cheshbon" is when judgmental @*&#% like you raise kids. Not when loving, devoted parents work outside the home and, sure, cut a few corners once in a while.

I'm thrilled for you that your husband is able to earn enough money for you to pay for day schools and college for all of your kids without accepting penny one of financial aid or any governmental assistance whatsoever, to pay for ba(r)(t) mitzvot and weddings, and to sock away the $3 million or so that you need for retirement. Kol hakavod. Most single-income families can't do that. I'll be honest. We can't.

But let me make one thing perfectly clear. My children are no cheshbon. They are amazing kids raised with absolute love, and perhaps a little more takeout than some other kids.

And your suggestion otherwise shows that you have the middos of a rattlesnake; I've no doubt that its better for children to have chips at snack time and loving parents, than to have homemade spelt muffins sweetened only with organic OJ and love, and a nasty judgmental piece of work mother like you.

boysrus

Wed, Feb 18 2015, 2:07 pm

amother wrote:

Hi amother, I am a little confused by this post of yours. Are you trying to say that most women put thier careers first and then claim that they have no time for everything they shouldbe doing at home to be good wives and mommies? You seem to be implying that husbands should be able to work hard enough so that a family can get by on only one income. I am wondering whereabouts in the world you live. Unfortunatley in too many parts of the world people just cannot actually get by on one income, unless the husband is a top lawyer or doctor. Not everyone can be or should be in those well paid professions. In my city in OOT USA, I have worked out that in order 'to make it' we need to earn at least 130,000 dollars year with our family size in order to pay for everything we need, no luxuries, just necessities. Ufortunately we dont earn as much as that, we therefore do not pay full tuition (there I admitted it!). If you apply for tuition grants and aid and you are a SAHM you will be lambasted for being a SAHM and making the comnunity foot the bill for your kids tuition. We are not makign anywhere near 130 thousand with two incomes btw.
The fact is that this year, the full tuition bill for just five of my kids is higher than my husbads income alone!
Where I live, you cannot get by on one income. So, where do you live amother? And how dare you come along and tell us women who wish we could be SAHM that we are doing it wrong and our husbands shouldl be earning enough to manage on one income?! Exploding anger

gp2.0

Wed, Feb 18 2015, 2:09 pm

zaq wrote:

My DD's preschool has a great policy about healthy snacks. They have snack time twice a day, and request that parents send in at least one healthy snack, for the first mid-morning snack. So since the snack only sat in their backpack from like 8 a.m. - 10:30 a.m., it's still in good condition. Plus, since all the kids are pulling out fruit, no one feels self conscious or like the odd one out.

Their lunch program is still appallingly stuffed with pasta, but they're trying.

Fox

Wed, Feb 18 2015, 2:13 pm

amother wrote:

I'm tired of hearing that these things are 'impossible'- they're not, it's just that we've decided that our career is more important. We have decided that 'no big deal, I can have a career and juggle everything else somehow.' The problem is, it's not 'everything else'- it's a full-time job in itself.

This, IMHO, is absolutely correct, and I wish you'd posted under your screen name so that I could look for your posts in the future.

I didn't mean to imply that the misogyny was coming from men; it's a hatred of women that is manufactured by, for, and of other women.

Without going into a long economic discourse (I can hear y'all thinking, "No, Fox, no! KMN!"), suffice it to say that in our efforts to maintain the kind of post-WWII surges in productivity and standard of living, we poured women into the workforce. Of course, women have "worked" in family businesses and farms for millenia. Now, though, we relocate people away from their extended families, so not only is Mommy taken away from the home, but Bubbe, Great-Bubbe, and Tante Esmerelda are several time zones away.

The denigration of homemaking is something that we really haven't emerged from entirely, though Martha Stewart will no doubt die trying to reform us. We're not yet completely comfortable with the idea that it is a full-time job to run a home well.

Listen to the kind of advice we're giving one another: if you stop at a gas station to pick up fruit on your way home after having thrown ingredients into a slow cooker in the morning . . . Does that sound like professional pride and workmanship? No. It sounds like figuring out ways to do the least amount of work necessary to barely get by.

Several years ago I read an article in the WSJ that was a real eye-opener for me: it concerned a service that matched tourists in Europe with native families who welcomed them as guests at their tables. There was a nominal fee involved, but no one was getting rich.

The article profiled an Italian family who participated. The husband was a professional of some sort, and the wife had an MBA from an American university and had been a vice president for a European bank. When their two sons were 5 or 6, the wife quit her career in order to be a homemaker. The article outlined her schedule: she baked all the family's bread; made virtually everything from scratch; set the table each evening, served wine with dinner, etc. No paper plates and fish sticks! Her kids couldn't understand how restaurants stayed in business.

This seemed to the family like an obvious trade-off. She couldn't work all day and have an enticing fresh meal on the table in the evening! And having a fresh meal was certainly more important than whatever benefits her salary brought! Americans have a hard time with that mentality, though.

Since we can't simply decide to change our culture, we instead choose to beat each other up for not being all things to all people. And then we wonder why so many women suffer from low self-esteem!