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Forum -> Children's Health
My 14 year old bil smokes e-cigarettes!
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amother


 

Post Mon, Feb 16 2015, 10:43 pm
I am the amother who asked recently if you would be comfortable being in someone's house with your kids while the person is smoking e-cigs. My fil used to smoke regular cigarettes, but now that he switched to the electronic ones, he smokes in the house. Well, I was in their house tonight and their 14 year old son was smoking with his father. I was so nauseated. Dh doesn't see why it's so terrible. My bil said his e-cigs don't have nicotine in them- they have different flavored vapors- pina colada, strawberry and others.

First of all, I don't have any idea if they make flavors without nicotine. I don't think my in-laws can read well enough to know if it really has nicotine in the box. (English is not their first language.) But either way, what's the point?

Also, they gave one of the e-cigs that did have nicotine (I think) to a four month old baby (not my kid) to play with. If the baby would get it open and eat the nicotine, she could die Chas v'Shalom.

Basically, they have this attitude of we can do whatever we want with these things, including giving them to kids, because they are completely harmless. I am so bothered. I feel bad for my bil that he was raised in a family that encourages him to do stupid things. Am I wrong?
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MagentaYenta




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 16 2015, 11:32 pm
I can't think of a kind way to say it. These folks are appalling.
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losingweight




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 17 2015, 12:12 am
This is my problem with e-cigs. Any age kid can get hooked and his parents will never know. They are odorless. And dangerous. And addictive. Horrible. I wish heimish people would stop promoting it.
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estibesty




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 17 2015, 12:39 am
Excuse me!!! You people are so ignorant. You wish heimish ppl would stop promoting it . my husband own the biggest heimish ecigg company DO U KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE STOP SMOKING CIG BECAUSE OF US!!!!!! WE SAVED SOME LIVES PROB. AND OH U NEED BE 18 PURCHASE IT FROM US. and it not the biggest deal your make it sound like the boy is using crack cocaine oh please
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estibesty




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 17 2015, 12:41 am
And it water vapor there is ZERO second hand smoke so stop crying about being in your inlaws house w ecigg vapor should be your worste problem to complain about because there is nothing that will affect u trust me.
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MagentaYenta




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 17 2015, 12:42 am
estibesty wrote:
Excuse me!!! You people are so ignorant. You wish heimish ppl would stop promoting it . my husband own the biggest heimish ecigg company DO U KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE STOP SMOKING CIG BECAUSE OF US!!!!!! WE SAVED SOME LIVES PROB. AND OH U NEED BE 18 PURCHASE IT FROM US. and it not the biggest deal your make it sound like the boy is using crack cocaine oh please


You can yell at me in capitals if you like. I personally think it's appalling that a 14 year old is smoking anything, no less being encouraged by their parents.
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estibesty




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 17 2015, 12:51 am
Ok at 14 he shouldn't be using it that I agree. We card all kids and tbey need need be 18. But why did s o write she thinks its crazy heimish ppl are promoting this I was yell at her she rather all those ppl smoke real CIG she ignorant I'm sorry she just is.
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MagentaYenta




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 17 2015, 1:04 am
estibesty wrote:
Ok at 14 he shouldn't be using it that I agree. We card all kids and tbey need need be 18. But why did s o write she thinks its crazy heimish ppl are promoting this I was yell at her she rather all those ppl smoke real CIG she ignorant I'm sorry she just is.


I'm very much a libertarian when it comes to adults and substance intake. I'm not too concerned about what choice of poison someone decides to consume if they are an adult or how they choose to consume it. Naturally society will deal with the fall out anytime the use of a toxin has ill effects on someone.

I don't think kids should be encouraged to smoke anything. I think that nicotine juice should be kept locked and away from kids, accidents happen.

You make your living from them, I suspect you would defend them.
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amother


 

Post Tue, Feb 17 2015, 8:42 am
OP here.

Esty besty, it seems like you are one of the people who think there are no dangers to these things and it's totally fine to give one to a 4 month old baby. However, there is no way to be sure of the dangers yet. Research is still being done, and lately they suspect that e-cigs are more dangerous than they originally realized.

I agree they can be a great thing is someone used to be smoke regular ones. But that's it. They should still be treated as a device to help smokers, not candy for kids.

I asked my children's doctor if I should worry about fil smoking in his house while we are there, especially since ds has asthma. She said he should never be smoking in the house near other people. And especially people with asthma. Many things can cause an asthma attack, and this is one possibility. But she said not to worry about third hand smoke from e-cigs.

There is also the concern about having nicotine in reach of children. A baby once drank it and died.

Maybe you can tell me if there is flavored stuff without nicotine in it? I would be a drop happier if that was the case, though still very bothered by the attitude that there's no problem with a 14 year old smoking anything.
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oliveoil




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 17 2015, 9:18 am
estibesty wrote:
Excuse me!!! You people are so ignorant. You wish heimish ppl would stop promoting it . my husband own the biggest heimish ecigg company DO U KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE STOP SMOKING CIG BECAUSE OF US!!!!!! WE SAVED SOME LIVES PROB. AND OH U NEED BE 18 PURCHASE IT FROM US. and it not the biggest deal your make it sound like the boy is using crack cocaine oh please


Oh, the hysteria! Are you in withdrawal or something?
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daagahminayin




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 17 2015, 9:29 am
It depends on the type of e-cigarrette. Some have nicotine and some don't.
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mummiedearest




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 17 2015, 9:30 am
Estibesty, if they're so safe, why do you say kids under 18 shouldn't use it? it's either safe or not.
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Cookie Monster




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 17 2015, 9:40 am
estibesty wrote:
Excuse me!!! You people are so ignorant. You wish heimish ppl would stop promoting it . my husband own the biggest heimish ecigg coompany DO U KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE STOP SMOKING CIG BECAUSE OF US!!!!!! WE SAVED SOME LIVES PROB. AND OH U NEED BE 18 PURCHASE IT FROM US. and it not the biggest deal your make it sound like the boy is using crack cocaine oh please


Are ou trying to promote your company or vice versa? If a sales person ever tried to pitch something to me in this tone I would run the opposite direction.
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sky




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 17 2015, 9:43 am
I think the reason is that under 18 shouldn't have is that it shouldn't be a gateway to the real thing.

But are they really safe? In recent findings it has been found that carcinogenic chemicals appear in higher concentrations in ecig vapor than in tobacco smoke.

So I don't think it is right to say they are safe to smoke around children, to allow someone to use it who doesn't smoke otherwise. I don't think its been around all that long that we know everything about it.

The entire situation would make me very uncomfortable. Especially giving to a child to play with. The Nicotine vapor is deadly.
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abby1776




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 17 2015, 10:28 am
E-cigarette use by children concerns fuelled by research
Woman smoking an electronic cigarette
E-cigarettes are seen by Welsh ministers as a 'gateway' to tobacco smoking
Continue reading the main story
Related Stories

Girls aged 11 'trying e-cigarettes'
E-cigs face curb in public places
E-cigs ban for under-18s in Wales
Three times as many children have tried e-cigarettes as have smoked tobacco, according to official figures.

It has reinforced concerns that using the devices could become a "gateway" to smoking cigarettes.

The study found 6% of 10 to 11-year-olds in Wales said they had used e-cigarettes, compared to 2% who had smoked tobacco.

Children who tried e-cigarettes were seven times more likely to say they might start smoking within two years.

They were also more likely to use e-cigarettes if their parents were smokers.

'Re-normalise' smoking
The vast majority of children who had tried e-cigarettes had never tried tobacco, according to the latest Childhood Exposure to Tobacco Smoke (CHETS) study.

But the study found evidence to suggest that e-cigarette use may lead children to smoke tobacco.

linebreak
E-cigarette use by 10 to 11-year-olds
Overall, 6% of children say they have ever used an e-cigarette, compared to 2% who have ever smoked a tobacco cigarette
8% of children whose parents smoke had tried an e-cigarette, compared to 3% of children of non-smokers
14% of non-smoking children who had tried an e-cigarette said they might start smoking in the next two years, compared to 2% of children who had not used such a device.
Source: CHETS study

linebreak
Health Minister Mark Drakeford said: "These latest findings shine further light on the potential impact of e-cigarettes on our children and young people.

"I am concerned the use of e-cigarettes may act as a gateway to and re-normalise smoking, especially for a generation who have grown up in a largely smoke-free society."

The study also found that fewer children were being exposed to second-hand smoke in cars and their homes.

linebreak
Exposure to smoke for 10 to 11-year-olds
9% of children said in 2014 that smoking was allowed in their family vehicle, down from 18% in 2008
For smoking families, it was down from 35% to 20%
4% of children said they had been exposed to smoke in a car the previous day, down from 7% in 2008
The proportion of children with at least one smoking parent fell from 33% to 22%
Source: CHETS study
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abby1776




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 17 2015, 10:29 am
First 'e-cigarette child death': New York baby dies after drinking liquid nicotine

Calls to change way e-cigarettes refills are marketed and bottled in wake of 'tragic accident'
ADAM WITHNALL Author Biography Sunday 14 December 2014

A one-year-old baby has died in New York state after drinking from what is thought to have been an e-cigarette refill bottle, prompting calls to change how the liquid nicotine products are presented.

The death was described by local police as a “tragic accident”, and is thought to be the first to involve a child and e-cigarettes.

An ambulance was called to a home in Fort Plain, New York, to reports of an “unresponsive” child last Tuesday, ABC News reported. He was rushed to hospital, but pronounced dead a short while later.

In a statement, Fort Plain police’s Sgt Austin Ryan confirmed that the child had drunk from a glass bottle containing liquid nicotine that did not have a childproof cap. Officers declined to say whether or not the liquid was linked to e-cigarette use.

But the death has prompted a huge backlash in the state, where the local assembly and senate have already passed a bill requiring child-resistant containers on liquid nicotine. Governor Andrew Cuomo is yet to sign through the bill, but is expected to do so by the end of the month.

Among the chief concerns is that many e-cigarette refills are marketed in a very similar way to fruit juices and sweets, inadvertently making them attractive to children.

Flavoured e-cigarette liquid nicotine is seen for sale at the Vapor Shark store on 6 September, 2013 in Miami, Florida Flavoured e-cigarette liquid nicotine is seen for sale at the Vapor Shark store on 6 September, 2013 in Miami, Florida “We certainly know that liquid nicotine is toxic,” Judy Rightmyer, director of the Capital District Tobacco-Free Coalition, told Albany’s Times Union newspaper. “They are marketing this liquid nicotine in candy and fruit flavors, so they can be appealing to young people. And with no childproof caps on them, they're lethal, as we unfortunately saw.”

Reported incidents of exposure to liquid nicotine have risen in the US from 271 in 2011 to 3,638 this year to 30 November. In a statement released on Friday, the American Association of Poison Control centers expressed concern that there are “currently no standards set in place that require child-proof packaging”.

According to the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), more than 16 million children across 10 states and the District of Columbia have legal access to electronic cigarettes.

Since 2010, a total of 40 states have banned e-cigarette sales to those under 18. Health officials say that the underage use of e-cigarettes is concerning because nicotine can be addictive and harm adolescent brain development.
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mille




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 17 2015, 11:00 am
estibesty wrote:
Excuse me!!! You people are so ignorant. You wish heimish ppl would stop promoting it . my husband own the biggest heimish ecigg company DO U KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE STOP SMOKING CIG BECAUSE OF US!!!!!! WE SAVED SOME LIVES PROB. AND OH U NEED BE 18 PURCHASE IT FROM US. and it not the biggest deal your make it sound like the boy is using crack cocaine oh please


I have several family members that used e-cigs to either quit or drastically reduce the amount of nicotine they were ingesting (and obviously eliminate many of the carcinogens of traditional cigarettes).

That said, nicotine is not a no-risk drug, even a "pure" form which is simply all nicotine and no anything else beyond flavor. There are obvious and definite changes that occur in the brain when one ingests nicotine in any form. It is a physically addicting drug. It is clearly not even meant for a 14 year old, since you yourself said that you only sell to 18+, so clearly a 14 year old has no business with it.

The OP is worried that her family does not read English well enough and may be giving her BIL e-cigs with nicotine, which is of a big concern. You don't think it's concerning that a 14 year old is consuming a physically addicting substance that alters brain chemistry?

I do not believe that we have a large enough body of research to definitively account for the effects of e-cigarettes in the long term, partially because they are just too new. However, we DO have a large body of research on the effects of pure nicotine. It is not without risks.

OP, as for the baby, I think the risk is if the baby gets a hold of the refill cartridge things. When it's in the e-cig, they would need to press down a button and inhale to trigger the mechanism that releases the nicotine. I'm not sure if a baby is capable of triggering the mechanism, and it only dispenses a little at a time. Obviously it takes a lot less to cause an issue for a baby than an adult, and it's a concern, but I would be much more concerned about BIL who is possibly consuming nicotine. Is there any way you can read the package and see for sure?
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amother


 

Post Tue, Feb 17 2015, 11:07 am
I have a feeling e-cigarettes will be banned one day. They’re not the solution to cigarette addiction.

anonymous because I’m scared of that woman who posted above and yelled.
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amother


 

Post Tue, Feb 17 2015, 11:08 am
abby1776 wrote:
Flavoured e-cigarette liquid nicotine is seen for sale at the Vapor Shark store on 6 September, 2013 in Miami, Florida Flavoured e-cigarette liquid nicotine is seen for sale at the Vapor Shark store on 6 September, 2013 in Miami, Florida “We certainly know that liquid nicotine is toxic,” Judy Rightmyer, director of the Capital District Tobacco-Free Coalition, told Albany’s Times Union newspaper. “They are marketing this liquid nicotine in candy and fruit flavors, so they can be appealing to young people. And with no childproof caps on them, they're lethal, as we unfortunately saw.”

Since 2010, a total of 40 states have banned e-cigarette sales to those under 18. Health officials say that the underage use of e-cigarettes is concerning because nicotine can be addictive and harm adolescent brain development.

According to this, it sounds like my bil's flavored stuff is actually nicotine. And it can harm his brain development, which was already not so normal. Wonderful.
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amother


 

Post Tue, Feb 17 2015, 11:15 am
mille wrote:
Is there any way you can read the package and see for sure?


Not likely. Because we try not to go there too often, we hopefully won't be back for a couple of months. And because if they saw me looking at it, they would yell and scream that I don't trust them and I am looking to find fault with everything they do, and I need to learn to relax and stop being so condescending. I've heard those speeches from them many times.
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