DH won't allow cleaning lady

Tablepoetry

Sun, Feb 22 2015, 11:11 am

marina wrote:

Most of us hire out things that technically we COULD do, just we decide not to spend our time doing it. From car washes to hair cuts. And really, many healthy people actually could paint their own walls or do their own gardening if they dedicated enough time and sweat. It's just that they choose to dedicate that time and sweat elsewhere. Maybe because the gardener does it better, or maybe because their earning power is more than that of a gardener. Doesn't matter. Cost-benefit.

marina wrote:

3. For me- a cleaning lady is literally cleaning your ****. She's scrubbing your floors, your toilets- that's a lot more personal than just mowing the lawn or getting take out.

4. I can ask you where you draw the line too. Why not hire someone to wipe your *** for you? Really? If you have the money and don't feel like doing this yourself, why shouldn't you hire someone for that unpleasant job?

I wouldn't hire someone for that kind of 'labour'. I can't quite articulate why it's different, but it is, and fact is that nobody I know, however wealthy, hires someone to do that.

Where's the line drawn? I don't know. There are a lot of unpleasant jobs that people even train for. Like being a pedicurist. You can say it's demeaning to cut someone's toe nails....but people choose to go into the field.

I do think demeaning is also in the eye of the beholder. All the women who worked for me or my friends over the years as cleaners were very proud, outspoken women. Some were far from poor and made a good living cleaning.
One of them worked as a cleaner for a few decades, invested all the money she earned from the different families extremely wisely (when real estate was at a low), and now has a few investment properties here in Israel. Another woman, who works for me now, lives in a villa. She's not downtrodden, she's not choosing this job because she's hungry for bread.

Some cleaners are poorer, of course, or even really poor, but that doesn't mean they are doormats. At least here in Israel, you will often see the cleaner in a fancy office building yelling at the rich, yuppie professionals to NOT STEP ON THE WET FLOOR or they will leave track marks. And in many (not all) places of work this is considered ok. It's her right. It's her pride, her accomplishment, and nobody is allowed to wreck it.

I only hire a cleaner one day a week, but I try and establish a real relationship so they will stay long term. They are invited to bar mitzvot and weddings. Last bat mitzvah the lady who cleans for me gave my dd $100, a huge sum in Israeli terms....maybe because she's Kafkazi, and they give huge monetary gifts for smachot....but in any case, I don't think she feels demeaned one bit.

amother

Sun, Feb 22 2015, 11:17 am

Marina, how is it different than hiring someone to wax your bikini area???

It's not like she's being forced into the job.

penguin

Sun, Feb 22 2015, 1:43 pm

Quote:

if he can get himself together enough to deal with his anger issues and resentment enough to actually run a household with another person who isn't a doormat.

Well, OP, in that case the disagreement over cleaning help is clearly only one symptom.

So I am with the poster who says, it's either cleaning help or marriage counseling, but it sounds like you seriously need both.

marina

Sun, Feb 22 2015, 2:05 pm

amother wrote:

Op here. Marina, do you think someone like me, who isn't asking because I just don't feel like it/it's unpleasant, but because straightening up is beyond draining and abnormally mentally difficult for me, is being elitist then?

no if it's abnormally mentally difficult then it's not elitist

marina

Sun, Feb 22 2015, 2:11 pm

amother wrote:

Marina, how is it different than hiring someone to wax your bikini area???

It's not like she's being forced into the job.

I guess there is also a culture of disrespect surrounding cleaning ladies (in some areas) that doesn't exist with beauticians or whatever you call bikini waxers. That's part of OP's husband's problem. No one complains about their bikini waxers stealing money from them or doing a sloppy job or working too slowly or why can't these people speak English etc..

Also prob you can't bikini wax yourself as well as a professional can- like a hair cut?

Maya

Sun, Feb 22 2015, 2:13 pm

marina wrote:

Also prob you can't bikini wax yourself as well as a professional can- like a hair cut?

Some of us just don't have the skills and capabilities to keep house. We need the professionals, too.

marina

Sun, Feb 22 2015, 2:14 pm

If you look below, there are links to other Imamother cleaning lady threads. One of them is called Do You Let Your Cleaning Lady BLAB on the phone?

That is literally the title of the thread. I have not seen threads asking whether you let your beautician or lawn mower guy or take out cook BLAB on the phone. It's an attitude.

marina

Sun, Feb 22 2015, 2:15 pm

marina wrote:

If you look below, there are links to other Imamother cleaning lady threads. One of them is called Do You Let Your Cleaning Help BLAB on the phone?

That is literally the title of the thread. I have not seen threads asking whether you let your beautician or lawn mower guy or take out cook BLAB on the phone. It's an attitude.

Maya

Sun, Feb 22 2015, 2:19 pm

marina wrote:

That I completely agree with. But then it's up to the individual to make that right. It still doesn't mean that the entire concept of having cleaning help is wrong.

KollelWife3

Sun, Feb 22 2015, 2:21 pm

marina wrote:

People are rude to their secretaries. Does that mean hiring a secretary is elitist? No.

Hire cleaning help if you need to, and be nice.

Ruchel

Sun, Feb 22 2015, 2:23 pm

I would say something if my beautician was blabbing on the phone. And I probably bother her more about details than I do my CL.

amother

Sun, Feb 22 2015, 2:45 pm

marina, I've been wanting to say this for years already. Your attitude reminds me of the rich women in A Tree Grows in Brooklyn. Have you ever read the book? It's about a girl growing up in a poor Irish family in Brooklyn in the beginning of the 20th century. Her father is a drunkard who dies of alcoholism induced pneumonia, leaving his pregnant wife with two young children and no money. The mother does heavy cleaning for wealthy ladies to put bread in her kids' mouths but when her pregnancy advances, the wealthy women feel guilty about having her scrub their floors with her big pregnant belly, so they dismiss her. They feel much better not having to watch this poor pregnant woman working so hard to keep their houses clean. They probably feel pretty smug and good about themselves. Meanwhile, the family is starving because their mother is out of work.

If I had to, I could do all the cleaning in my house. But I don't enjoy housework and I can afford to pay someone else to do it for me. Do you think my cleaning woman would prefer that I do the housework myself, or would she prefer earning an honest wage to support her family back home?

I venture to bet that there isn't one cleaning woman who would be thankful to you if you convinced her employer to fire her because it's more egalitarian for her to clean by herself.

amother

Sun, Feb 22 2015, 3:36 pm

Op here. Yes, there are other issues. And after the words that came out last night, he was on his third strike of counseling or bust, and thankfully this afternoon called himself on it, so hopefully that will help. However, we'd been working on things really well, with a lot of growth, sans counselor, and the cleaning thing specifically is just something he couldn't see to compromise on. I agree on principle with the poster who said "allow"in the title is concerning, but it's not about his decision whether to allow me to do something as much as allowing a cleaning lady in the house, which is his space, too. He thinks he can do it all himself but if I make him, I'm just being spoiled, entitled, lazy, childish, and irresponsible, because who can't just clean up after themselves? I've explained why it's not that simple, particularly for me but even for regular women who get help just because there are only so many hours in a day and I'd prefer to enjoy a few. His response is that I could take the time I spend on Facebook or here to clean and I say I deserve a little bit of mindless relaxation in my days. He then says get the work done first. It's really frustrating. So it's a weird standstill that WE don't need a professional even if I do because he's fully capable, but he won't do it all because then I'm not pulling my fair share.

He has a lot of thoughts on my supposed entitlement because I grew up upper middle class and he did not. Now, we're much closer to how he grew up and I deal with it just fine, so that should already prove my lack of obnoxious entitlement to him, but having someone else clean would mean such great peace of mind for honestly us both in the end, because he hates clutter and the straightening up really stresses me out, that it's worth scrimping everywhere else for that huge relief.

amother

Sun, Feb 22 2015, 3:41 pm

Also, we're both big DIYers. I even do some of the work on my car myself! But I believe in not spending significant amounts of your time doing things that drain you when, for where we live, you can buy back that time at $10-$15/hour!

Raisin

Sun, Feb 22 2015, 3:49 pm

Marina, I honestly do not think it is elitist for a mother with several young children to hire cleaning help. Of course, any employee should be treated nicely, whether they are your secretary, accountant, hairdresser or cleaner. People who are rude to cleaning help might be rude to other people as well.

OP, your husband might not want some stranger in his bedroom. Maybe you can agree that you get help who cleans the rest of the house but not the bedroom?

amother

Sun, Feb 22 2015, 3:53 pm

Raisin, he doesn't want one past the front door!

greenfire

Sun, Feb 22 2015, 4:01 pm

sorry you're not his maid ...

I understand spacial boundaries ... and still sometimes you need help

he can close his office door / the bedroom door ... but that is it ... you can limit the help to once a week or once a month ... but you have the right to ask for help or hire help ... he should be willing to help

people need downtime & do not want to spend it scrubbing toilets or washing floors

the dxh used to want to go on outing to the grocery store ... seriously how is that any FUN ?!

MagentaYenta

Sun, Feb 22 2015, 4:03 pm

greenfire wrote:

...
the dxh used to want to go on outing to the grocery store ... seriously how is that any FUN ?!

I'm a recreational grocery shopper, I have to disagree with you LoL.

Heyaaa

Sun, Feb 22 2015, 4:18 pm

marina wrote:

Since you asked:

1. Hiring someone for things you can't do yourself (gardening, plumbing, painting) is not elitist because you literally can't do it.

2. The above applies for cleaning when you literally can't do it- I.e. not well, gave birth to twins yesterday, barely surviving etc.

3. For me- a cleaning lady is literally cleaning your ****. She's scrubbing your floors, your toilets- that's a lot more personal than just mowing the lawn or getting take out.

4. I can ask you where you draw the line too. Why not hire someone to wipe your *** for you? Really? If you have the money and don't feel like doing this yourself, why shouldn't you hire someone for that unpleasant job?

I pay my cleaning lady a lot of money to do those things. I also worked as a cleaning lady for about a year back when I needed money.

Nowadays I don't work and I have one dd and I can afford to hire a cleaning lady so I do because it makes my life easier. On weeks she doesn't show up I always manage. I'm super nice and always offer her to take breaks and I offer her food and drinks. And I would never dare tell her off for talking on the phone.

I don't think cleaning toilets is in anyway condescending. Heck if I needed the cash I would probably do it again.

Some ppl are condescending to anyone not like them. It's those ppl who are rude to cleaning ladies.

amother

Sun, Feb 22 2015, 4:49 pm

marina wrote:

Lol my SIL just told me how she's going to a new person for her Shaitel because the person blabs on the phone when she's working on her...