DH won't allow cleaning lady

Frumdoc

Sun, Feb 22 2015, 6:51 pm

marina wrote:

Since you asked:

1. Hiring someone for things you can't do yourself (gardening, plumbing, painting) is not elitist because you literally can't do it.

2. The above applies for cleaning when you literally can't do it- I.e. not well, gave birth to twins yesterday, barely surviving etc.

3. For me- a cleaning lady is literally cleaning your ****. She's scrubbing your floors, your toilets- that's a lot more personal than just mowing the lawn or getting take out.

4. I can ask you where you draw the line too. Why not hire someone to wipe your *** for you? Really? If you have the money and don't feel like doing this yourself, why shouldn't you hire someone for that unpleasant job?

1. We all pay others to do jobs we could do, or learn to do, but chose not to fit into our lives. Say, bake bread daily or go to a bakery.

2. It is the attitude that is disgusting, not the act of hiring someone to clean your house. So treat them with respect, like you should treat everyone, and pay them an appropriate wage that reflects their valued time and effort, and it is a respectable profession. Take financial advantage, or treat them like a slave or animal, it becomes an abuse.

3. Lots of people earn their living wiping other people's behinds or washing them, it is called personal care and is a necessity for those who are incapable of self care for whatever reason. It is an essential role in many care homes or hospitals, just like the cleaner who ensures the wards are clean and hygienic, or the operating theatres are sterile etc. It all contributes equally to the recovery process, and is hopefully equally appreciated. Sure is by me.

4. I have cleaned my own home and other people's, I have wiped my own behind and other people's, I have cleaned my own toilet and other people's, I have wiped my own vomit off the floor and other people's, and other people have done all of those things for me. And I was on first name terms and truly grateful for when my cleaner, who is my friend cleans my toilet when I couldn't or when I pay her to, and to the nurse who cleaned me up when I was in a hospital bed. It was more degrading for me than her.

5. My current cleaner is a friend. We met when she applied for the job, she helped me move house, we got married the same month, went to each other's weddings, counselled each other through the ups and downs of early marriage, I taught her to bake and cook, she taught me to clean a mirror. If I am home when she is there, we clean together or I cook her a meal to take home and we have a great time.

We don't all behave as if the person who cleans our home is an untrustworthy, inferior being whom we have control over (unlike many of the unpleasant threads about phone calls or racism against cleaners). I just outsource a job I don't have the time or inclination for to someone whom I trust and is effective, who choses to work as a cleaner instead of a nurse/ midwife (which she is trained as) as it is better hours and money and low stress.

Hiring a cleaner does not make you a bad person, racist or lazy. It just means you hopefully have a clean house.

amother

Sun, Feb 22 2015, 10:35 pm

I have full time help and am thrilled to pieces.
I'm really disturbed by the negativity towards people with help and the accusations that its mainly religious Jews.
Where I live almost everyone has at least part time help, both non Jews, the gamut of religious and non religious Jews. We can afford it and it makes our lives more pleasant, while giving someone an honest living. Like the amother above said, My nanny is happy to have a job. One where she's in a warm, comfortable house with all her meals provided and adorable kids (who by the way call her by her first name, not cleaning lady).
I grew up with no help, when my husband offered to hire a nanny/housekeeper, I thought it would be an invasion of my privacy and was not so into it. I quickly discovered that its not an invasion at all, as a matter of fact I started off without Sunday help so I could have one day alone and recently I added sundays too.
I don't need help because "I cant manage" or "my life is a mess". I'm a capable person, who knows how to clean, and does it when I need to. I would rather spend my limited hours in the day enjoying my family and my life while still maintaining a beautiful home.

m in Israel

Mon, Feb 23 2015, 2:26 am

marina wrote:

A few people have already answered you, but I'm going to put in my 2 cents anyway.

I really find it strange that you believe that hiring someone for a job that you "literally" CAN do is elitist. Technically speaking most people can do their own gardening or painting -- they hire others to do it because people choose how to allocate their resources in ways that produce the most benefit for themselves and their quality of life. Time and energy are resources, and money is a resource. People who hire cleaning help are deciding that they would rather spend money than time and effort on this particular task.

And honestly, the concept that people "trade"skills and products has been the basis of the world's economic system for centuries. No one is self sufficient, which allows people to take what they can do/make and use it to access that which they can't. AS Shlomo Hamelech said "laich yitparnassu zu me'zu" (sorry -- I can't transliterate!) -- "go out and get parnassah, each one from the next". I pay my cleaning lady, she uses that money to pay her kid's art teacher who in turn uses that money to go out to a restaurant with her husband for their anniversary, and the restaurant pays an employee who goes out and buys a new toaster oven . . .

I don't understand why I have to be "barely surviving" or having just given birth to twins to decide that for me I'd rather pay someone to clean then do it myself.

And yes, I agree a cleaning lady is much more personal than many other jobs (although I can think of plenty of jobs that are even more personal). That is why I like hiring a cleaning lady who I feel comfortable with -- but that has nothing to do with elitism -- it is simply pragmatics.

And as far as where I "draw the line" -- it is simple. I will hire someone to do something for me when it is worth it in terms of how I allocate my resources. IOW, if the time and effort involved is more important to me than the money. I have no theoretical problem with someone hiring someone to "wipe their a**" as you say, assuming both parties are fine with the arrangement. As frumdoc said, there are many situations where people are hired to do just that. But for the vast majority of people the "effort" involved in personal hygiene is not enough to justify contracting out those specific tasks -- not to mention the privacy concerns.

It actually seems to me that you are the one with an elitist attitude -- that some jobs are belittling and "unworthy", and therefore hiring someone to do those jobs is in itself putting them down. Perhaps this is cultural - here in Israel cleaning ladies are among the highest paid workers per hour (making as much as say social workers), and it is a job that is done by people of all backgrounds (including religious men and women). Since moving to Israel the cleaners I have hired at different points have included a Filipino "foreign worker", a born and bred Israeli secular woman, a religious woman whose family originally came from Iran, a Chareidi "yeshiva bochur" who cleaned during his lunch break, a post high school Israeli "Bais Yaakov" girl, and a new immigrant from Russia in the process of becoming frum. I believe I treated them all with respect and had good relationships with all of them.

Perhaps what you are really upset about is specific groups of people who you believe treat their workers inappropriately. But many of those people are just as belittling to those whom they hire to mow their lawns or fix their plumbing. In which case this is not about cleaning ladies but about how people should make sure to treat their workers properly -- a point that I certainly agree with.