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Life in the Palace: YA fantasy series where Jews are heroes
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gp2.0




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 24 2015, 11:54 am
sunbeam wrote:
Us frum women are really NOT the target market.

It was written for secular teenagers - we're just able to enjoy it as a side benefit!


I read a lot of secular books, both YA and adult. I haven't read a "frum" book in a decade. So my perspective is coming from the other side.
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mille




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 24 2015, 12:18 pm
sunbeam wrote:
Us frum women are really NOT the target market.

It was written for secular teenagers - we're just able to enjoy it as a side benefit!


Then even more so this book needs major editing. Have you read the other super popular YA novels out right now? Like The Hunger Games? Even going a little bit younger with the Percy Jackson series? Harry Potter? None of these series were published on first drafts. All went through significant editing processes. There are so many incredibly well written series out there, so something that has been poorly edited and has mistakes or needs work for flow and clarity is just simply not going to make it.

I think that myself and gp2.0 are advocating for an editing process with an experienced editor, not suggesting that there are small typos. I mean, I would be happy to email the author via her blog and suggest an editor, but this is not that I'm saying "Oh, on page 238, you put 'form' instead of 'from'".

For the record, I don't think I've ever read a frum novel. I don't even think I can name a frum novel, especially not a YA one. I've read very few "Jewish themed" novels (like Rashi's Daughters and the like), but really 99.9% of my literary experience is with secular/non-Jewish writing.

edit: Also, if frum teens or women are NOT the target audience, why PAY for an advertisement on a website that caters to frum married women?
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mommyla




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 24 2015, 12:24 pm
mille wrote:
Then even more so this book needs major editing. Have you read the other super popular YA novels out right now? Like The Hunger Games? Even going a little bit younger with the Percy Jackson series? Harry Potter? None of these series were published on first drafts. All went through significant editing processes. There are so many incredibly well written series out there, so something that has been poorly edited and has mistakes or needs work for flow and clarity is just simply not going to make it.

I think that myself and gp2.0 are advocating for an editing process with an experienced editor, not suggesting that there are small typos. I mean, I would be happy to email the author via her blog and suggest an editor, but this is not that I'm saying "Oh, on page 238, you put 'form' instead of 'from'".

For the record, I don't think I've ever read a frum novel. I don't even think I can name a frum novel, especially not a YA one. I've read very few "Jewish themed" novels (like Rashi's Daughters and the like), but really 99.9% of my literary experience is with secular/non-Jewish writing.

edit: Also, if frum teens or women are NOT the target audience, why PAY for an advertisement on a website that caters to frum married women?


Thumbs Up Yes! It doesn't need a bit of proofreading, it needs a heavy-duty edit by a professional editor before it's published and promoted.
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Catherine Green




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 24 2015, 1:10 pm
Hi Everyone,

Since Yael was nice enough to let me have a username as 'Catherine Green' (clearly a pen name, my real name is something much more Jewish) I thought I'd respond to some of your comments.

Firstly in case this wasn't clear, this is a SECULAR book. It was written for secular teens or teens who are reading secular books. Please do not give this to your Beis Yaakov attending daughters, unless they are having serious hashkafic issues.

Unfortunately there are many orthodox teens who are reading non-Jewish books, watching movies, using unfiltered internet. This book is for those teens.

There are swear words in these books. Because that's how secular teenagers speak. There is romance, because that's what interests the YA market. I consulted a (well-known) Rav before I wrote the books. The Jewish philosophical aspects were approved as was the approach. He said it was permitted for me to advertise on website catering to frum people as long as it was very clear what was in them.

So why did I advertise on imamother? Because Jewish teens with hashkafic issues don't go to Jewish websites, but their mothers/sisters/cousins do.

I'm very sorry that some people have found proofreading mistakes in the first book. This was NOT a first draft. Besides multiple revisions myself, it was edited/proofread by two different professional editors. Traditionally published books are proofread by at least five people before they are published. I don't have that type of financial resources. I am, however, working on uploading a new re-proofread version asap. As Hashem_Yaazor was kind enough to point out, I confess to being an awful proofreader. Until now I wasn't aware that there was such a large problem, in a year of selling the books in the general market (with thousands of downloads) no one ever complained about the editing.

Since someone asked, I have two blogs. www.lifeinthepalacesaga.com where I write about the series and give details of the latest releases etc. And www.writingtheword.com where I blog about writing as a religious person.
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Hashem_Yaazor




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 24 2015, 1:15 pm
I started taking notes on my kindle of where I noticed an error; I would be happy to send them to you when I'm done, or if you prefer for me to wait till the newer version comes out, I can do that.
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oliveoil




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 24 2015, 3:17 pm
It's not just proofreading. Its in need of real serious editing.
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Catherine Green




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 24 2015, 3:32 pm
I'm always happy to hear readers' responses, even the less favorable ones. Some of the early reviews of the first book helped shape the storyline in later books.

If anyone has specific comments having read the full book, proofreading or otherwise, you can email me at Catherine.green.writer@gmail.com
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Ms.MaryMack(inblack)




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 24 2015, 3:51 pm
Catherine,
I downloaded the book last night and I stayed up late to finish it - I couldn't put it down!! It was excellent IMO. Very refreshing plot and strong characters. Do you write books geared for frum people as well? I would love to see book like this in the frum world.
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Catherine Green




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 24 2015, 4:02 pm
Teawithlemon, I'm so glad that you liked it. I do write frum books. Not fantasy, though. I was thinking to possibly make a spin off from this series following the character Tal, who's religious the whole time so her story would be without swearing or inappropriate content.

I don't know if the frum publishing world would allow such a unusual take on yiddishkeit. Maybe I'll try asking my frum publisher how much fantasy they would let me get away with. (Although I won't hold my breath, they edited out most of my jokes in the past!)
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gp2.0




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 24 2015, 4:48 pm
OK, I'm so sorry about my earlier comments. The writing in the actual book is much better than the writing in the excerpt here!

It starts off a little slow action wise, too many characters too fast for my taste but I'll keep reading later and see if that changes.
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Rodent




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 24 2015, 6:30 pm
Some harsh comments here from people who have read only a small excerpt which doesn't necessarily reflect the story as a whole. And give your kids some credit, teenagers know the difference between real and fantasy, I seriously can't believe that I have to comment on that....

It's an interesting concept and for those whose children are more integrated into the wider society it's worth a read and probably more appropriate than most other stuff out there. Personally I'd have no issues with my kids reading it except that they're too young.

Good luck with your books 'Catherine' Smile
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MagentaYenta




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 24 2015, 6:47 pm
Rodent wrote:
Some harsh comments here from people who have read only a small excerpt which doesn't necessarily reflect the story as a whole. And give your kids some credit, teenagers know the difference between real and fantasy, I seriously can't believe that I have to comment on that....

It's an interesting concept and for those whose children are more integrated into the wider society it's worth a read and probably more appropriate than most other stuff out there. Personally I'd have no issues with my kids reading it except that they're too young.

Good luck with your books 'Catherine' Smile

When I'm spending money on a book be it an ebook or the analog kind I will read the excerpts before making my decision. If I find editing and grammar issues in the excerpt it's unlikely I'll spend the money on it. If that's the best that can be shown in a free sampling I'm really not going any further with the tome.


Last edited by MagentaYenta on Tue, Feb 24 2015, 7:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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greenfire




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 24 2015, 6:55 pm
sequoia wrote:
You reported Yael's own ad to her?


it's not exactly yael's ad ... she just accepted it to post ...

& though that's kind of funny to report it - I do think we have to call a spade a spade
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 24 2015, 7:35 pm
Catherine, I don't do fantasy but I'm looking forward to reading this!
Lots of frum kids read fantasy, possibly there are more clean options, so I'm sure this book will be a welcome addition.

As far as a quote on IIRC p. 2 about how kids will know the difference between fantasy and good true values, we've had threads, maybe in the reading room forum, about fantasy and sci fi, specifically Jewish fantasy and sci fi. I think Jewish fantasy is especially complicated if at all doable.
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sunbeam




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 25 2015, 1:29 am
Honestly, the best part about this series is that it keeps getting better and better. There are 3 books out and a companion novel (Jen's Story) and every book is even better then the one before it! I'm all caught up and I can't wait for book 4 to come out!
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Hashem_Yaazor




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 25 2015, 8:48 am
I've been reading more of the first book, and I am not a fantasy lover at all, but it's still intriguing me. Smile
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marina




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 26 2015, 1:21 pm
Sunbeam, are you the author?
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Hashem_Yaazor




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 26 2015, 1:39 pm
Catherine Green is....

I made some more progress and actually passed the excerpt from here. It didn't come across as so bad in the scheme of the story with the censored words, though I don't like such language at all....

I am not really understanding what fighting animals is supposed to really symbolize, but maybe it's not supposed to symbolize anything.

I really like the ingenuity in the labels put on different types of people "Courteseans", "Serfs", etc
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 26 2015, 4:41 pm
So are Jews heroes, or is there some surrogate for Jews that are heroes?
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Hashem_Yaazor




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 26 2015, 5:19 pm
They are called the People, never Jews (that would probably alienate a lot of her reader base to be honest). But there are a lot, a lot of similarities.

Day of Connection once a week starting on Friday night with angels accompanying the men home.
Day of Accounting (I think R"H)
Dietary laws include ritually slaughtered meat and not eating bugs.
Girls wear skirts and married women cover their hair.
The men study "the Way", and those who study it all day are on a higher plane and called the Courteseans.
Etc.

One negative remark for our audience with a positive twist. For careful readers, there are a lot of allusions to premarital relations. (She has seen her boyfriend straight out of the shower, comment about spending the night in his bed). The positive part is that none of it is explicitly stated and no graphic details are given (which cannot be said of the kissing scenes)....
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