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My kid has no friends :(
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amother


 

Post Wed, Feb 25 2015, 10:26 pm
Please read this through, I know it will be long but I need help.

6 y/o DS, in 1st grade, is a bright but challenging kid. I just got back from parent-teacher conferences where I heard that the other kids don't like him. He is rigid and bossy and has a hard time making and keeping friends. This is not a new issue but it's becoming more pronounced.

Examples, his teacher said that if a kid drops something DS will jump out of his seat to pick it up and then bring it to the lost and found before the other kid even has a chance to realize that he dropped it, which obviously drives the other kids crazy. He'll go over to a ball game and take a ball because he wants to play catch, and spends most recesses playing or walking around by himself. He told me another kid kicked him on the bus, with a little probing it turns out that DS said something stupid to the other kid (to the effect of "why do you always fight with everyone on the bus?" without provocation).

His interactions with other kids and adults, especially when he feels uncomfortable, are cringeworthy. He'll start talking in a silly voice or making faces, which seems to be his way of dealing with not knowing how to act but it turns off other people. This repeats itself again and again, no matter how many times I tell him not to do it.

When he has playdates, he bosses the other kid around. I don't allow it but playdates are exhausting for me and both kids don't enjoy themselves. His playdates are becoming rare, partially because he doesn't have much time out of school and partially because he has a hard time making friends and I don't always feel like refereeing.

I've discussed these things with him time and again. I've done my own informal play therapy. I think he is just socially off, he doesn't get it. And I know that these are the crucial years, and I don't want him to be an outcast and friendless for the rest of his life.

After the last parent-teacher conference with a similar report, I got the school social skills therapist involved. But she does not see him as often as I'd like, she's hard to reach, and it seems that nobody is working together. I plan on going to school to talk to her and/or the principal to get to the bottom of this. I am in tears thinking about the effect this will have on him as life goes on.

What else can I do? What can I do with him at home? Do I need to take him to a psychologist or a social skills expert? What can be causing this? What makes such a smart kid so unable to understand the most basic social rules? (I know, intelligence isn't connected to social smarts, but I just can't understand it.) I don't even know where to begin, and I'm so overwhelmed.

Thanks for reading, please please please help if you can.
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amother


 

Post Wed, Feb 25 2015, 10:33 pm
OP here, I forgot to add that he considers himself the victim. When I talked to him earlier tonight about playing with other kids at recess, he had a long list of excuses for why he plays by himself - he can't find his friend, this kid gets speech therapy at recess, that kid is mean to him, the kid that's in charge of the game once said he would beat him up, if he joins without asking they'll scream at him, he can't make it down the stairs fast enough because the railing is broken... I just can't get through to him, and it's breaking my heart.
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sbil




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 25 2015, 10:39 pm
You may want to try doing extra after school activities such as sports... heard people recommend karate. The way I understand it is that kids need a little self confidence boost to help with social skills.
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amother


 

Post Wed, Feb 25 2015, 10:43 pm
Thanks, he actually did do karate for a while but he wasn't enjoying it because he wasn't particularly good at it, and he doesn't like feeling inferior (or being told what to do, for that matter). I would love to give him some sort of extracurricular activity but there aren't many choices and his school days are long without much downtime. I'm considering music lessons, I think he'd be good at it (though personally I'd rather he'd do sports but he's not athletic and doesn't enjoy it).
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amother


 

Post Wed, Feb 25 2015, 10:47 pm
I have the same issue. I also just got back from PTA and heard how my son annoys the other kids and therefore the kids hit him. I just started him in karate and I hope it will help his self-esteem.

In the meantime, you aren't alone. (((HUGS)))
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amother


 

Post Wed, Feb 25 2015, 10:59 pm
Thanks, amother. Hope you have an easy time from now on.

I'm just so upset about this, I was never Miss Popular but I always had friends. Now my kid is the weird one in his class Sad
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Dolly Welsh




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 25 2015, 11:06 pm
Please, no karate training for a hostile boy, either of you mommies.

This isn't a self-esteem thing, it's something more complicated, that needs professional help.

If you teach a hostile boy how to efficiently snap somebody's head back hard, with one well placed roundhouse karate kick, you will be doing his future no favors. Do not empower him physically.

Do not give any military or firearms training to any hostile person.

It won't give them self-esteem or self discipline. It won't make them more responsible.

I am sorry for your pain.

There is such a thing as animal therapy and it might be useful here. If you take care of a horse thoughtlessly you will be in big trouble fast, so you learn not to. A situation like that teaches without words, without human wrangling, the facts teach you. Google will turn up places like this.

Some men are solitary and good using their hands. They work in nature management, conservation.

Yes, get some evaluation but don't be satisfied with soft stuff.

If he is imitating a bossy father, work on that. But he may not be, not at all.

Hugs.

Don't let him hurt your other children if you have them.
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amother


 

Post Wed, Feb 25 2015, 11:10 pm
Dolly Welsh wrote:
Please, no karate training for a hostile boy, either of you mommies.

This isn't a self-esteem thing, it's something more complicated, that needs professional help.

If you teach a hostile boy how to efficiently snap somebody's head back hard, with one well placed roundhouse karate kick, you will be doing his future no favors. Do not empower him physically.

Do not give any military or firearms training to any hostile person.

It won't give them self-esteem or self discipline. It won't make them more responsible.

I am sorry for your pain.

There is such a thing as animal therapy and it might be useful here. If you take care of a horse thoughtlessly you will be in big trouble fast, so you learn not to. A situation like that teaches without words, without human wrangling, the facts teach you. Google will turn up places like this.

Some men are solitary and good using their hands. They work in nature management, conservation.

Yes, get some evaluation but don't be satisfied with soft stuff.

If he is imitating a bossy father, work on that. But he may not be, not at all.

Hugs.

Don't let him hurt your other children if you have them.


I'm the second amother (not OP), but nowhere did OP say that her son is hostile. And neither is mine. I have to teach him how to fight back so that he doesn't get picked up and dumped into the garbage can. Last week he got punched in the eye on the school bus. I think martial arts would be great for him.

(Sorry for hijacking, OP)
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amother


 

Post Wed, Feb 25 2015, 11:14 pm
OP here.

Dolly, your posts always leave me a bit perplexed, but thank you for your input. It will help me clarify some things.

He's not hurting anybody anymore. He used to, but he hasn't (at least not that I've heard of). He does not hurt his siblings, and he's learning to be more gentle when his toddler brother hits him (I've taught him to redirect, rather than screaming at or pushing the baby away he'll now say "make nice" - the intensive one-on-one "training" seems to work for him after a while, but I obviously can't do that in school).

I also don't know if I'd use the word "hostile." To be honest, I'm at a loss for words when it comes to describing his attitude and personality.

He does love animals, he does spend time with them and it is in fact calming for him, but it does not help his human interactions.

There is no bossy father, b"H. We are both social and good role models.

I don't want him to be solitary! That's all nice and good if he chooses that as an adult, but I cannot allow a first grader to start his school career as a social outcast.
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heidi




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 26 2015, 12:03 am
Oh, OP, I am so sorry. It hurts so much to hear these things.
I have lots and lots of experience with this.
I have 3 kids who had/have varying degrees of what you are describing. I will start by saying that me and DH are both social people who can have normal social interactions though DH is a bit more introverted than I. Also, DH and I were horribly socially awkward well into our teens.
My kids also can't seem to figure out why they would get beaten up. All they did was: mimic a kid, try to trip a kid bcz. they thought it would be funny, refuse to let others play with the soccer ball they had brought to school (to play with others), etc. etc. etc.
As they get older my kids still have various issues: calling friends a bit too often on their cellphones, asking us as parents for ridiculous favors-- would you mind leaving the restaurant in yerushalyim where you are out with your best friend who you haven't seen in over a year and going to look all over the city for a store that is still open at 10pm and buy a beard for a purim shtick we're doing in yeshiva?
Two things, first of all, RITALIN. I don't know if your ds has ADD, but it is possible to have attention deficit without hyperactivity. A big part of ADD is impulsive behavior and lack of understanding of social cues. If your ds does need Ritalin, just taking it might help him become more aware of social nuances and more able to think before he acts impulsively.
My second suggestion is therapy.
With number three kid that is this way I finally got smart and started him in therapy. He was 8. He learned how to see things as they actually were, not as he thought they were. He learned how to interact more effectively. And WE as parents learned very very valuable skills for helping him.
Part of it also is just a tremendous immaturity-- also a hallmark of ADD, and for my kids, once they became more mature (really really late, think like 18) they also read social skills better.
OP, I will end on a positive note. One of these three kids is almost 21. He has a ton of friends, real friends. He is loved and accepted by the community where he learned in yeshiva last year, and often goes there for Shabbat when he gets out of the army, where he is fought over by the families of the rabbeim who all want him for meals. He has always been a sweet, loving person and a wonderful son and brother and now others see it too.
Hang in there!
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tf




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 26 2015, 12:09 am
There are groups forming all over the place for building social emotional skills for children and teens. This child seems to be a perfect candidate.
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Dolly Welsh




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 26 2015, 12:10 am
OP you have a talent for this. But you need a professional to help.

As for the word hostile, it is a horrible word, but anybody is hostile toward something he is not good at and repeatedly fails at.

That's entirely understandable but the fact is there.

People's patience runs out. A boy who does not know how to relate to others because he was born that way is not going to have endless patience to try again that maybe THIS time it will work. In time he will get the point that he is having to do something he stinks at, and is punished for stinking at.

The fact is that these men's hostility is a danger to themselves.

Why? Because other men are not going to put up with it, and they vastly outnumber the individual hostile man. These men are still pint-sized but that is what is going on.

I don't know what to do. The animal contact is calming, exactly because animals relate simply and consistently to a human.

I think it is important to re-train, and also to not ask him to do what he cannot do. He (both boys here) may need to be in settings where less is asked of them, so they do not experience repeated failure.

I am out of my depth here. I have no training or qualifications at all. Both ladies should get professional help.

A shadow might be good, for both boys.

Some people on this forum have had good behavioral results with eliminating gluten from diet. Try that, I would say, without talking about it.

Sometimes PANDAS is suspected: that's behavioral issues resulting from lingering staph infections. Google it.

Cats carry a parasite called taxoplasmosis or something, and it can alter behavior in some people, think about that a little.

If you "annoy" people, you are hostile. Don't fight the word. Saying something "stupid" that angers someone isn't "stupid" it's hostile. Don't fight the word.

People say "I hate math". Why? Because they can't do math. It is natural to hate something you stink at and everybody else can do. The frustration is both enraging, humiliating, and completely mystifying. The fear of the unexplained is added to all the rest. WHY can't I do this?

But a kid, any kid, needs to experience competence and success. It is better to be good at selling hats and hotdogs in the stands than to stink at pitching down on the field. Give them tasks they can actually do.

They are MALE. Don't empower them physically. These are not little girls.
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Jewishmom8




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 26 2015, 1:22 am
yes I second the idea of social skills workshop\therapy.
It helped 2 of my kids a lot.
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amother


 

Post Thu, Feb 26 2015, 2:24 am
I agree about getting tested for ADHD (at least to rule it out if nothing else). My son has many similarities to yours though on a lesser magnitude . The rigid thinking you describe, the seeing the picture with a different lense of reality than others, not seeing beyond his point of view, the impulsivity. My son's biggest issues are not hyperactivity or attention.

Ritalin doesn't fix everything, it just makes your son "available for learning". He should then definitely be in therapy and social skills groups or whatever is recommended.

If not ADHD, could he be on the spectrum? I'm not an expert, but the behavior you're describing sounds more pronounced than average. Social skills or therapy or whatever is great, but I would start with a good diagnosis - then you'll actually know what needs addressing.
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imaima




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 26 2015, 2:55 am
I don't agree about karate. Martial arts teach kids discipline and controling their bodies and using their force in an organized way. They know that these skills are for defence. Besides, kids meet a different set of friends in extracurriculars and it can boost their self esteem.
I would also recommend team sports for social skills.
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happymummy




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 26 2015, 3:36 am
My son had/has a really hard time making friends (since we moved country 2 years ago-which I know is different) He is also 6. I found that he relates better to boys in the class younger than him. He feels less threatened and therefore more confident. Have you tried finding an out of school friend? I found it helped my son to practise his social skills on someone who hadn't seen his past mistakes. I hope you find something that works. I know how hard it can be.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 26 2015, 3:53 am
Dolly, you are very wrong about karate or other martial arts. My husband used to own a martial arts club. he loved teaching young children. And he could see the self esteem rise in the students (even if there was self esteem to begin with). It is a very good tool to teach young kids a lot of different skills.
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chani8




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 26 2015, 6:18 am
Sounds to me like you got a wonderful little geek on your hands. But you want to make him better at social interactions. I say, help him be the best he can be, according to his personality, not your idea of what's socially acceptable. (Read the Myers-Briggs Personality Scale).

Just today, my adult DD explained to me that extroverts really don't understand introverts at all, and think there is something wrong with introverts, that they need to be fixed. It's a shame, IMO, to push a child to fit into your idea of what's 'good' socially.

IMO, your son just needs to be happy, to find interests and hobbies that make him feel happy. With or without people. As an introvert, I can assure you that having friends does not make an introverted person happy. It's stressful, confusing, taxing, and annoying.

That all said, if you want to make play dates better, then do it like a 'chug' where you have each kid painting, separately but together. Separately but together building legos. Not referee, but giving each kid space to do what they want, while just being near each other. The interactions are less complicated that way.
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amother


 

Post Thu, Feb 26 2015, 9:46 am
OP here, thank you so much for all the replies (and hugs!), I've read all of them and hope I can address everyone.

heidi, thank you for the encouragement and kind words. I've been wondering about ADD, he's also a very black-and-white thinker and gets fixated on what he thinks is right. That's why I often have to stress that it's a bigger mitzvah to listen to what Mommy is telling you what to do than to do the "mitzvah" that you are currently doing, which is probably what comes into play in school too. He can and does focus when he's interested, and can spend hours building with Lego, reading, concentrating on what he's doing... but when he's not interested or motivated, there goes the focus.

I'm also hoping that it's partially due to immaturity as he's one of the younger kids in the class and I think that many of his classmates are unusually socially adept (older brothers, natural sociabiilty, etc).

tf & jewishmom8, I'm looking for a good social skills group. I will discuss it with the principal and social skills therapist hopefully today. I think that focused instruction in a real social setting would help us get to the crux of the issue.

Dolly, you hit the issue on the head (some of it, at least). At home I can "condition" him to talk nicely to the baby because the baby will continue to forgive him (and provoke him) regardless of his reaction; a bunch of six-year-old boys will not be so patient and allow him to learn. I don't agree with your viewpoint on martial arts and lean toward shabbatiscoming's perspective, but that's not important now as martial arts was not his thing.

amother, I'm going to work on finding a good child psych to help get to the bottom of this.

happymummy, thanks, he does play a lot with a neighbor who's a bit younger than him and a laid-back personality, the arrangement works well for both of them but I still find a huge discrepancy between one-on-one skills and group skills. I think he's lost in the larger setting.

chani8, he is indeed a bit of a geek Smile and I'm okay with that. But even introverts and geeks need to learn appropriate social skills to be successful in school; it's not just that he's quiet or different, it's that the other kids actively dislike him and he doesn't have any "real" friends. I'm introverted too, but it's important to have at least one good friend and to know how to relate to others. He wants to play with the other boys, he is often bored on his own, but he just doesn't know how.

I am going to get in touch with the right people at school today and get to work on this. Wish me luck and daven for me! Thank you all again for reading and posting!
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 26 2015, 9:49 am
chani8 wrote:
Sounds to me like you got a wonderful little geek on your hands. But you want to make him better at social interactions. I say, help him be the best he can be, according to his personality, not your idea of what's socially acceptable. (Read the Myers-Briggs Personality Scale).

Just today, my adult DD explained to me that extroverts really don't understand introverts at all, and think there is something wrong with introverts, that they need to be fixed. It's a shame, IMO, to push a child to fit into your idea of what's 'good' socially.

IMO, your son just needs to be happy, to find interests and hobbies that make him feel happy. With or without people. As an introvert, I can assure you that having friends does not make an introverted person happy. It's stressful, confusing, taxing, and annoying.

That all said, if you want to make play dates better, then do it like a 'chug' where you have each kid painting, separately but together. Separately but together building legos. Not referee, but giving each kid space to do what they want, while just being near each other. The interactions are less complicated that way.


Chanie, though I agree with you about the personality scale and working within your child's personality, my DD (16), who is also introverted, does not agree with you that introverts do not need to have friends. Introverts can be just as sociable - and they enjoy and need socialization - as extroverts. They experience lonliness if they lack friendships. It's just that they also need space or they will get overwhelmed and stressed. They tend to move in smaller groups, and they gravitate to friends who respect their need for space and privacy.

Miriam Adahan has an excellent book on this subject - I believe that one is "Appreciating People, Including Yourself".

OP may be introverted, but it sounds like she has always had friendships that worked for her personality.


ETA: Just read OP's post and sounds like she and my DD think the same way!


OP, I think a social skills group, as others have suggested, would be really, really worth trying. A friend of mine shared with me that her DD, who had issues expressing herself in socially appropriate ways, did really well in such a group. She got to practice social interactions with children her age while under the supervision of a social skills therapist, and learned how to initiate and interact appropriately. This carried over to school, where she had been hindering her social progress in the past, and with more correct, appropriate behaviors she was able to move past that.

If you are in Lakewood, I could get you the name of the therapist that was doing the groups where my friend's child made so much progress. Wherever you are, these groups are popular, and chances are you may be able to find one that will benefit your child.
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