Women not allowed to wear eyeliner?

shabbatiscoming

Sat, Feb 28 2015, 3:26 pm

ftmother wrote:

I just read in the tznius a day book from rabbi falk that excessive eyeliner is a problem and its also minhag hamakom.

He is known to be extremely machmir on many things. But you write here "excessive" not any. There is a difference.

Raisin

Sat, Feb 28 2015, 4:17 pm

at one time make up was considered very unrefined and only used by certain types of women - harlots, actresses maybe. Not the case nowadays.

Nothing wrong with eidel natural eye make up in my circles. Even Rabbi Falk agrees.

In general I think make up should be to enhance your beauty, not make you stand out like a clown.

youngishbear

Sat, Feb 28 2015, 7:19 pm

mommy1108 wrote:

Spirit of the law and refinement apply to sensitivities. The statement that you made was general about tznius. Tznius is cut and dry Halacha. Period. If you want to talk refinement, that is where you can apply the grey area idea and pick and choose sensitivities based on your own instincts

That's why I posted, if you define tznius as refinement... Which I do.

Part of the refinement is mandated by halacha, the rest is a sensitivity that varies by minhag hamakom and individual feeling.

octopus

Sat, Feb 28 2015, 7:32 pm

Didn't ezra peddle makeup from town to town? And isn't he praised for it in the gemara because he would go to the most far flung places? Women like to beautify themselves; it is in their nature. Everyone reads everything sooooo literally! What were the intentions of those women that colored their eyes with colors in the navi? obviously it wasn't l'shem shamayim. If you are really concerned about your makeup, and you really need to have it, you can say a tefillah in your own words while you put it on, that the purpose of this makeup is to feel presentable and to serve Hkb'H. or that you are beautifying yourself l'shem shamayim, and please let all your actions and thoughts be l'shem shamayim.

yidishmamma

Sat, Feb 28 2015, 9:12 pm

I took upon myself to stop wearing mascara and eye liner. When I decided that I threw it away rite away. Yes I look much better with it... I have pale complexion with pale lashes . Not saying halalcha or anything just my experience . I had my face made professionally for wedding and got many compliments on my face without the heavy eye makeup I did in past for weddings

amother

Sat, Feb 28 2015, 9:12 pm

ftmother

Sat, Feb 28 2015, 9:59 pm

That's what Rashi says based on yeshaya hanavi - that blue and red eyeshadow were what the women were wearing and that was part of the reason for he churban. I mean nowadays it's really about being eidel. I had been making a pretty heavy cateye liner for Shabbos and after I read up on this, I did a little less intense. My husband said that in the mishna it talks aboit women's eye makeup so to say that it's ussur is a little funny.

FranticFrummie

Sat, Feb 28 2015, 10:42 pm

If eyeliner is forbidden, someone needs to tell 99.9% of the women in Crown Heights! I'm convinced that Chabad* holds major stock in eye makeup companies. shock

I don't have a problem with it personally, I just have allergies and rub my eyes all day. If I wore eye makeup I'd end up looking like a melting panda.

*Not bashing. DH is Lubavitch, and has kids living in CH. It's just my observation when I've been there to visit.

amother

Sat, Feb 28 2015, 10:56 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

If eyeliner is forbidden, someone needs to tell 99.9% of the women in Crown Heights! I'm convinced that Chabad* holds major stock in eye makeup companies. shock

Tznius in chabad is a sore topic. Let's not go there.

causemommysaid

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 12:11 am

yidishmamma wrote:

can I ask why? Is there a mitzvah to look less good?

Obviously don't cake it on like a hooker but why is it all or nothing?

etky

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 12:39 am

octopus wrote:

Yes. I was going to say this but I don't have the exact source. He was upset about the Jewish men marrying Samaritan women so he encouraged and urged the Jewish women to make themselves more attractive by beautifying themselves with makeup.
As for Yeshayahu, seems that the reference is to eyeshadow and not eye pencil and even that is just commentary (and not, by far, the only possible meaning of the phrase משקרות עיניים)- hardly a compelling source for an issur.
I think this is a common sense issue. If eyeliner and eyeshadow are applied in an exaggerated manner it can look vulgar and even lewd.
Any type of makeup is better in moderation, maybe eye shadow and liner especially b/c they're a more artificial form of enhancement (unlike blush, lip color and mascara which heighten existing facial color).

mommyla

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 12:48 am

mommy1108 wrote:

Wait, what? No it's not. The definition of tznius is hotly debated.

gp2.0

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 1:18 am

etky wrote:

Any type of makeup is better in moderation, maybe eye shadow and liner especially b/c they're a more artificial form of enhancement (unlike blush, lip color and mascara which heighten existing facial color).

Actually, eye shadow and eye liner also exist naturally in some women (and men.)

ETA and kids! I know a 6 year old with such dark lashes and purple-gray framing her eyes that people stop her mom at simchas and ask why she thinks such a young child needs makeup!