Women not allowed to wear eyeliner?

shabbatiscoming

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 1:39 am

mommy1108 wrote:

Spirit of the law and refinement apply to sensitivities. The statement that you made was general about tznius. Tznius is cut and dry Halacha. Period. If you want to talk refinement, that is where you can apply the grey area idea and pick and choose sensitivities based on your own instincts

if this were the case then every single jewish woman would be dressing the same as every other jewish woman. And that is very much not the case. Tziut is most definitely not cut and dry.

DrMom

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 2:29 am

OPINIONATED wrote:

But how do you know when to cover a girl's face using the "paper bag" feature

or the "pixilate feature"

or the "black bar feature"

Most poskim agree that the "black bar" is to be avoided by those who are careful in such matters, as it could be mistaken for heavy eyeliner.

Which could lead to mixed dancing.

Heyaaa

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 3:43 am

mommy1108 wrote:

Tznius is actually very up for interpretation. There are a few halachos which spell out where the cut off point is that we're allowed to expose but after that (and even before that) every community interprets tznius differently. Some say short sleeves are okay, some say pants are okay, some say the stockings need to have seams. We cannot know who is wrong but we can follow our rabbi and trust that what he teaches is the truest answer.

imasoftov

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 3:55 am

DrMom wrote:

Most poskim agree that the "black bar" is to be avoided by those who are careful in such matters, as it could be mistaken for heavy eyeliner.

Which could lead to mixed dancing.

The camera should not be sold until they make separate models, each with only one of the options, and you can only buy the one that your posek approves. And if people are trade cameras they'll ban all photography .

imasoftov

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 7:33 am

But to the original question - when someone tells me something is somewhere in a book or even in a chapter (much more so if it consists of multiple volumes like the Shulchan Aruch) but not where, I ask them where it says that. If they say they don't know, I tell them that's fine, they can get back to me about it.

bat1

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 9:37 am

according to Rabbi Falk, you can wear makeup as long as you look natural, like you can have longer lashes if people naturally have that etc. so whoever looks like no mentch without it, go ahead and dress like a mentch.

greenfire

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 10:53 am

didn't women 'beautify themselves for their husbands' so that they would have kids since paroh wanted to kill the boys ? how did they do so ?

& this is coming from the person who says why are you all colouring your faces ... I like the natural look [someone had to tie me down to put make-up on for my daughter's wedding]

amother

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 11:28 am

CatLady wrote:

you have to call it "guyliner".

So clever! I had a client whose eyeliner was so well done, I was tempted to ask who did it. I did think the blue eyeshadow and the black lace bow around his neck were a bit much, though. I mean, be who you are but do you really need to rub people's noses in it?

zaq

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 11:40 am

gp2.0 wrote:

Actually, eye shadow and eye liner also exist naturally in some women (and men.)

ETA and kids! I know a 6 year old with such dark lashes and purple-gray framing her eyes that people stop her mom at simchas and ask why she thinks such a young child needs makeup!

As a kid I had superficial blood vessels near the base of my lashes that looked like very subtle eye shadow. The style then was a heavy stripe of color across the lid, so what I had could have been mistaken for the residue of purple shadow left behind after an incomplete removal. That's all history now. Also I had long, dark, curly lashes--I couldn't figure out why people used eyelash curlers, since I tried it once and looked no different than before--and had to be very stingy with mascara even in my forties, otherwise my lashes looked fake. But no more, sorry to say. Now they're short, straight, skimpy and almost invisible. Sigh.

zaq

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 11:42 am

DrMom wrote:

Most poskim agree that the "black bar" is to be avoided by those who are careful in such matters, as it could be mistaken for heavy eyeliner.

Which could lead to mixed dancing.

hey, what about Lassie there? She is female, is she not? Why is her face not doctored up?

greenfire

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 11:55 am

zaq wrote:

hey, what about Lassie there? She is female, is she not? Why is her face not doctored up?

it is doctored up with a bag later on down the road

amother

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 12:05 pm

A meforesh on the machzor says "al cheit shechatanu lefanecha besikur ayin" means eye makeup.

I heard a rebbetzin talk about this and I challenged her whether the meforesh was a posek.

Although I personally think makeup should be subtle. (And clothing. And sheitels.)

So I'd have to say the above should be "excessive eye makeup".

But certainly if you live in a place where nobody wears it, you should either try to blend in, more or less, or move!

(Anon because I've discussed that incident IRL.)

shabbatiscoming

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 1:16 pm

amother wrote:

which meforash? in my whole life I have never heard anything like this before.

ETA: just went to look this up. I have here that this means: looking at forbidden things, invasion of privacy of others, expressing disapproval with raised eyebrows.

How do you come to eye make up?

debsey

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 1:27 pm

amother wrote:

This doesn't sound like a meforesh - this sounds like a high school teacher getting carried away in a lesson and trying to "stretch" something - maybe by giving girls extra "kavanos" to have when they say al cheit? I'd need a verified source for a stretch like this. If I hear one, I'll gladly apologize.

zaq

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 2:46 pm

greenfire wrote:

it is doctored up with a bag later on down the road

oh, good--we would not want our men with their so-shaky moral compass to be led astray by the idea that there are females in nature.

greenfire

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 2:48 pm

zaq wrote:

oh, good--we would not want our men with their so-shaky moral compass to be led astray by the idea that there are females in nature.

they already know - that's why they call us b!tches Twisted Evil

PinkFridge

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 2:49 pm

debsey wrote:

And if the meforash is quoted, my bet that it was referring to excessive for the times.

etky

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 3:09 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Stands to reason that it might build off of the Rashi on Yishayahu 3:16 - his interpretation of the phrase
עיניים משקרות as the application of blue or red eye shadow. Other persushim of this phrase talk about a 'roving eye' or jealous gaze, which actually fits better into the context of the pasuk, which talks about the haughty and contrived comportment and body language of the women of Israel at the time.