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Forum -> Yom Tov / Holidays -> Purim
Vent - my guests ate my MM cookies
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happymummy




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 02 2015, 12:07 am
We used to have all sorts of people over to stay(we no longer have a spare room).I always made it clear that they could help themselves to anything from a certain cupboard. I also never left my children alone with our guests in a room. Never had someone go through my freezer though a guest did steal my credit card though Sad. I feel so bad for you especially as you put such effort in to be organised.

P.S I'm a mother of small children so I prob count as the younger generation but some if us do open our house to more difficult guests!
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amother


 

Post Mon, Mar 02 2015, 4:45 am
But the freezer is where I keep the pharmaceutical-grade brownies!
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 02 2015, 5:56 am
Look at the loss of the cookies as a kaporah.
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 02 2015, 7:52 am
I just asked Rabbi Leiby Burnham of Partners in Torah, who writes for Binah magazine, if hachnassas orchim is obligatory and he answered that although it is definitely a mitzvah, it is not obligatory. He cannot answer as to why a rabbi told OP that she was obligated to accept guests for Pesach and that there may be pieces missing to that story but there is no halachic obligation.
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greenfire




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 02 2015, 7:59 am
amother wrote:
No. They were theme cookies and the writing went with the theme. There were chocolates in the freezer also which matched the theme. It is so obviously special cookies because of the writing.


so how could they even eat them on shabbos - aren't they erasing the words ?! were they even frum ...
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 02 2015, 8:03 am
greenfire wrote:
so how could they even eat them on shabbos - aren't they erasing the words ?! were they even frum ...


I hate to say it but the word "frum" is relative.
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shalhevet




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 02 2015, 8:26 am
greenfire wrote:
so how could they even eat them on shabbos - aren't they erasing the words ?! were they even frum ...


You can eat cookies like that on Shabbos, you just can't cut them along letters/ words.
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shalhevet




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 02 2015, 8:44 am
Most of the situations here are not hachnasas orchim at all. Hachnasas orchim (for sleeping) is putting up people who are stranded, or who don't have the financial or otherwise means to make Shabbos. Having people sleep over because your friends want to invite their friends or family for Shabbos is not hachnasas orchim (though it usually is a chessed). If someone was stranded without a means to get home because of the snow/ it was too late to get home/ their car broke down etc. you should probably host them unless it would be dangerous or a health risk not to.

But if they just want a vacation or to visit their friends, you can decide just like any chessed. Is this mitzva a priority over others (like time for your own children, for example?) Do you have the (physical, emotional) strength? etc. etc. Chessed is always a good thing. But everyone has their own circumstances of what is appropriate.
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dr. pepper




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 02 2015, 8:45 am
OP, I am so sorry you had this experience.
And it sounds like you are such an awesome hostess (leaving out food for sleeping guests...)
I've been reading the responses and I'm not sure I understand something.

I see 3 issues:

1) if you feel like you can't for whatever reason, you don't owe anyone an explanation

2) shame on that rabbi for trying to emotionally blackmail you into agreeing to host!

3)I don't know why everyone is jumping on the "well, you just have to say no from now on"
Why is one (or 2) bad apples enough to ruin a major mitzvah and fabric of Jewish life.
I feel like perhaps a better discussion would be regarding setting boundaries and standards (which, based on this crazy situation makes me realize how what I would like to think is normal...is clearly not necessarily).

I have lent out our apartment in the past (think a few weeks) and have done practically shidduch checks on those staying there!

I also definitely think you should tell those neighbors what took place.

Look, we often need to ask people to host for us. If I had someone do this at a neighbors house, I would much prefer they tell me then just simply stop allowing us to continue using them as hosts.

But to say no because of a rotten apple seems a shame. There has to be a better way.
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amother


 

Post Mon, Mar 02 2015, 8:48 am
southernbubby wrote:
I just asked Rabbi Leiby Burnham of Partners in Torah, who writes for Binah magazine, if hachnassas orchim is obligatory and he answered that although it is definitely a mitzvah, it is not obligatory. He cannot answer as to why a rabbi told OP that she was obligated to accept guests for Pesach and that there may be pieces missing to that story but there is no halachic obligation.



He said Abraham put off talking to Hashem when strangers came. That's how important it is to host.
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 02 2015, 8:52 am
amother wrote:
He said Abraham put off talking to Hashem when strangers came. That's how important it is to host.


It is important but no one is obligated to take in people when it is not good for them. I just spoke to him an hour ago but you can call him at Partners in Torah, Detroit.
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 02 2015, 8:52 am
shalhevet wrote:
Most of the situations here are not hachnasas orchim at all. Hachnasas orchim (for sleeping) is putting up people who are stranded, or who don't have the financial or otherwise means to make Shabbos. Having people sleep over because your friends want to invite their friends or family for Shabbos is not hachnasas orchim (though it usually is a chessed). If someone was stranded without a means to get home because of the snow/ it was too late to get home/ their car broke down etc. you should probably host them unless it would be dangerous or a health risk not to.

But if they just want a vacation or to visit their friends, you can decide just like any chessed. Is this mitzva a priority over others (like time for your own children, for example?) Do you have the (physical, emotional) strength? etc. etc. Chessed is always a good thing. But everyone has their own circumstances of what is appropriate.


100%
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amother


 

Post Mon, Mar 02 2015, 8:52 am
dr. pepper wrote:
OP, I am so sorry you had this experience.
And it sounds like you are such an awesome hostess (leaving out food for sleeping guests...)
I've been reading the responses and I'm not sure I understand something.

I see 3 issues:

1) if you feel like you can't for whatever reason, you don't owe anyone an explanation

2) shame on that rabbi for trying to emotionally blackmail you into agreeing to host!

3)I don't know why everyone is jumping on the "well, you just have to say no from now on"
Why is one (or 2) bad apples enough to ruin a major mitzvah and fabric of Jewish life.
I feel like perhaps a better discussion would be regarding setting boundaries and standards (which, based on this crazy situation makes me realize how what I would like to think is normal...is clearly not necessarily).

I have lent out our apartment in the past (think a few weeks) and have done practically shidduch checks on those staying there!

I also definitely think you should tell those neighbors what took place.

Look, we often need to ask people to host for us. If I had someone do this at a neighbors house, I would much prefer they tell me then just simply stop allowing us to continue using them as hosts.

But to say no because of a rotten apple seems a shame. There has to be a better way.


It would embarrass the couple. The MIL is tough and would come down way too hard on them. They are not rotten apples - just young and clueless.

I am baking more cookies now. At least there is time before Purim.

I would rather no one knows why I stop with the sleep over guests.
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dr. pepper




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 02 2015, 8:56 am
I certainly here why you would not want to say something in this situation.
Not worth the potential repercussions.

I wonder still if there is a way to deal with this without throwing the baby out with the bathwater...

My mother hosts a ton. A ton!
She has strict rules about foood.....etc.

And everyone still loves coming to her.
Maybe because she sets such clear limits and expectations.
Hatzlocha...
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imasinger




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 02 2015, 8:58 am
amother wrote:
But the freezer is where I keep the pharmaceutical-grade brownies!


Trying to imagine what would happen if the guests ate THOSE...
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amother


 

Post Mon, Mar 02 2015, 9:02 am
dr. pepper wrote:
I certainly here why you would not want to say something in this situation.
Not worth the potential repercussions.

I wonder still if there is a way to deal with this without throwing the baby out with the bathwater...

My mother hosts a ton. A ton!
She has strict rules about foood.....etc.

And everyone still loves coming to her.
Maybe because she sets such clear limits and expectations.
Hatzlocha...


Honestly, I feel like something is missing to the story.
Guests don't open individual's freezers (Did you say help yourselves? Are they socially delayed? Did you kids really do it and blame the guests?)
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abound




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 02 2015, 9:07 am
I don't know anyone who is that young or clueless There is a reason this couple got married. I have tonz of guests. I grew up in what people call "an open house" no one ever did such a thing. The most you had was someone open the refrigerator to take out a drink, or bought snacks from a cabinet when they were told they could.
I do not think you need to never have guest, (but after such an occurrence, maybe take a breather! Either way, learn how to set boundaries and don't ever have THIS couple again.
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Raisin




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 02 2015, 9:33 am
clueless is finishing off the cheesecake you meant for the whole family. Going to the freezer and finding carefully iced cookies and eating them is a whole new level of clueless. Did you say something to the young couple?

I don't think you should stop hosting because of this. If there are other reasons you can't host, then don't. But not because of two people without boundaries.
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Butterfly




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 02 2015, 9:51 am
octopus wrote:
You're more than welcome to be my guests anytime you want!

Mine too. Wink
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amother


 

Post Mon, Mar 02 2015, 11:09 am
amother wrote:
Honestly, I feel like something is missing to the story.
Guests don't open individual's freezers (Did you say help yourselves? Are they socially delayed? Did you kids really do it and blame the guests?)


I never say to help yourself. I say to tell me what you need and I will gladly get it for you. In the morning, the husband went into my fridge and got juice for his wife. I went ahead of him and took the juice and poured the wife a cup and then placed the juice on the table. I made them coffee and gave them cakes. My house has waitress service. I even asked them what they need before I laid down.

The couple is really young. They are not socially delayed. They are teenagers who would probably be embarrassed if they realized they didn't behave right. Often we hear about a former seminary girl who is embarrassed how she behaved as a guest. I think they are in the same position. I am speculating the wife copied her mom or mil and served her husband.

My kids definitely didn't do it. That is not even a possibility. My kids know the boundaries.

If it wasn't for the amount of work I put in and the new amount of work replacing them, I would not have been upset.
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