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What looks provocative?



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amother


 

Post Mon, Mar 02 2015, 3:24 pm
According to you, what looks provocative for a woman? What do you consider eye-catching? By you, I mean not according to Rabbi Falk or other well-known tznius experts or school requirements.
I've had this discussion IRL - this is why I'm amother - and would like your personal opinion. Please do not bash each other. I know this thread has the potential to degenerate in a tznius fight.
I feel when you have a model figure, tall, slender with noticeable curves, it is hard not to attract attention, even dressed in black bags. People will always comment and ask you if you diet, etc.
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rising hero




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 02 2015, 3:26 pm
Having a good figure and dressing nice is far from provocative. Attractive does not equal provocative!
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Barbara




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 02 2015, 3:31 pm
Wearing your shirt unbuttoned.

I don't mean leaving the top button open so you don't feel strangled. Or the second. Or maybe even the third. I mean full on, I never had a Dressy Bessie so I never learned how to button, Beyonce. Wide front slits stopping just an inch or so short of your vajayjay are pretty provocative as well.

Hidden: 



Glad to help.
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black sheep




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 02 2015, 3:32 pm
amother wrote:

I feel when you have a model figure, tall, slender with noticeable curves, it is hard not to attract attention, even dressed in black bags. People will always comment and ask you if you diet, etc.


I totally agree with you on this, and even if you don't have a "model figure" (whatever that means) but just any woman who has a womanly figure with curves, she will attract attention.

I personally do not think your goal should be "to not attract attention." even though our bais yaakov teachers constantly repeated "attractive and not attracting" (whatever that means...) I think the goal of tznius is something which cannot be put into any cute little cliche, and something that is different for each woman.

as far as being provocative, again that is subjective. I can define what I think it means, but someone else might consider different things provocative. it will depend on a mix of culture, religion, and personal preference. I personally think that playing footsie under the table with a man who is not your husband would definitely be crossing the line into "provocative," while the female foot in and of itself is not provocative. however, in KJ, if a woman uncovers her foot, there are many men who would quickly look away, and many women who would quickly run over and throw a covering over that provocative display.

so, context and personal preference and some obvious things, like the footsie example.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 02 2015, 4:02 pm
Attracting attractive, play on words.... very demotivating one, too. I prefer solid common sense.
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agreer




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 02 2015, 4:11 pm
IMO, these things are provocotive:
When something is skin-tight. And I mean so tight you can tell whether she's wearing underwear or not, and what kind.

Heels that are more than five inches, especially on someone taller (>5'4", but I'm not so tall).



If you have a great figure, thank Hashem! I know many, many women who are so blessed and manage to dress fashionably w/o being provocative. Their clothing fits them but doesn't hug them or pull in certain areas (bust, hips).
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sitting




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 02 2015, 4:24 pm
Behaviour can be more provocative than clothing...speech too. Tsnius js not just clothing its way more than that.
I would agree skin tight is v provocative.
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water_bear88




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 02 2015, 4:46 pm
I think the lines of a garment can be provocative, even if it's covering enough. I've seen plenty of frum women whose clothing covers elbows, knees, and collarbone, but could be considered provocative (e.g. skin-toned shell under a jumper that wouldn't look low-cut with a white or other-colored shell but really draws the eye to the bustline with the skin-toned shell). I also have a few non-Orthodox friends who may not follow hilchot tzniut but are never provocative in dress. Shirts are not clingy, though they may have cap-sleeves; modest pants.
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zaq




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 02 2015, 5:04 pm
It depends on many, many factors.
--environment. what is provocative when one woman wears it alone ceases to be so when everyone wears it. The eye grows accustomed. You see a whole lot of men in the US riveted by exposed ankles or elbows these days? yet these were considered very risque during the American Revolution. Cleavage, oddly enough, was not.
--build. a thin knit sweater is not provocative on a girl with a boyish figure, even if it is on the snug side, but give her a few generous curves and even a bulky fisherman knit two sizes too big is going to shout "look at me!" Similarly, a flat-chested woman can get away with leaving more buttons open on a shirt because nothing shows, whereas a bosomy woman, especially a short one, will show cleavage rather quickly. Short-waisted women with hourglass figures look far more provocative in wide belts than willowy women.
--large swaths of exposed skin anywhere. A short skirt is more provocative on a tall, leggy woman than a petite one with short legs because more skin is showing. A woman with a giraffe neck is going to be more provocative in a dress that hugs the base of her throat than a woman with no neck who leaves the top two buttons of her shirt open, simply because the giraffe is flashing more skin.
--other endowments. A lot of mascara may be fine on a woman with short, skimpy lashes, whereas on a woman with naturally lush lashes it can be just too much. Bright lipstick may work on a woman with thin lips and be too-too on a woman with overly full lips.
--movement and posture. You know what I mean. Obvious and energetic tossing or flipping of long hair, wiggling one's rear while walking, standing with one hip tilted to the side, especially when accentuated by a hand resting on the extended hip, crossing and uncrossing one's legs at the knee when seated, loosening the shoe on the upper foot so it dangles from the toes and leaves the rest of the foot bare.

There are others of course but you get the idea.

I totally disagree that tall. slender women with curves cannot avoid looking provocative. Those who care about such things manage to do an excellent job of downplaying their assets. Unusual height is impossible to hide, of course, but it is definitely possible to choose tailored styles and non-clingy fabrics with backbone that will camouflage or at least not accentuate curves. Appropriate fit is important. Many women wear skirts that are too tight in the rear, the excuse being that the next size up is too big in the waist. Secret: Skirts can easily be taken in at the waist. Women who care about such things make it their business to know this.


ETA: I need a vacation. I reread this post as "wiggling one's ear." Some might find that provocative, I suppose, but most would find it funny. Or weird.


Last edited by zaq on Mon, Mar 02 2015, 6:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Dolly Welsh




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 02 2015, 5:30 pm
amother wrote:
According to you, what looks provocative for a woman? What do you consider eye-catching? By you, I mean not according to Rabbi Falk or other well-known tznius experts or school requirements.
I've had this discussion IRL - this is why I'm amother - and would like your personal opinion. Please do not bash each other. I know this thread has the potential to degenerate in a tznius fight.
I feel when you have a model figure, tall, slender with noticeable curves, it is hard not to attract attention, even dressed in black bags. People will always comment and ask you if you diet, etc.


True. There is nothing to do but wear a loose long shirt. Woven fabrics not knits. Below that, a skirt that is straight-sided if you want, but not too pencil-y if you want to look graceful and correct. Meaning, not too tight or too short. That looks icky anyway.

Anybody who asks if you diet should be mumbled to.

You aren't fleshless, you just have a sharply defined waist. Yes, that is eye-catching. Drape the thing or deal with the attention. What a bore, better to drape.

Try to keep color and sparkle interest high up, at the neck and head. Go easy on high heels. Flats might be more the ticket. I would go easy on interest at the wrist and hand, too. No high color manicure, or much gold, there.

You might be a candidate for a lower key makeup too; I would be careful around metallic eye shadow, for instance, or strongly dark or rosy colors. Down girl.
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naturalmom5




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 02 2015, 7:28 pm
black sheep wrote:
I totally agree with you on this, and even if you don't have a "model figure" (whatever that means) but just any woman who has a womanly figure with curves, she will attract attention.

I personally do not think your goal should be "to not attract attention." even though our bais yaakov teachers constantly repeated "attractive and not attracting" (whatever that means...) I think the goal of tznius is something which cannot be put into any cute little cliche, and something that is different for each woman.

as far as being provocative, again that is subjective. I can define what I think it means, but someone else might consider different things provocative. it will depend on a mix of culture, religion, and personal preference. I personally think that playing footsie under the table with a man who is not your husband would definitely be crossing the line into "provocative," while the female foot in and of itself is not provocative. however, in KJ, if a woman uncovers her foot, there are many men who would quickly look away, and many women who would quickly run over and throw a covering over that provocative display.

so, context and personal preference and some obvious things, like the footsie example.


Oh Black Sheep don't you know existing in provocative
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