Too much noise outside at bedtime

Barbara

Tue, Mar 10 2015, 7:38 pm

amother wrote:

In all honesty, I did not click on the link yet, but I would like to explain further.
The theory has many other components to it, and that is why I directed you further. You did bring up valid points and I would like to explain further. (Again without proper terminology, as I don't have time to look things up)
While the infant brain is developing, it has many, many more cells than a mature child brain. It was discovered that the function of this phenomenon is to precisely create the formation of the structures of the brain, based on outside stimuli.
Take an infant who's hearing is not fully developed. He is MORE sensitive to loud noises, triggering the Moro reflex! He does not start off LESS sensitive and develop sensitivity over time. The ability to ignore, or allow sounds to move to the subconscious, is a skill that gets developed over time. When it is fully developed, the specified neurotransmitter overflows the system and the "sensitive period" is shut off. If children are exposed too early to too many noises it may happen too early leading to apd or learning disabilities.
I don't have the sources in front of me, so if you would like to learn more, you would have to do your own research. There was a study done on children in an orphanage close to a factory. The children living on the floors closer to the noise had higher rates of apd and learning disability.

You are probably right about a noise machine used to drown out other noises, and I apreciate you pointing that out. I will look into it and make a decision.

You're comparing the noises from a factory, heard constantly, to the noise from a fan heard for half an hour?

Look, do what you want. But WADR I think that you need to go back and re-read the literature you're citing. I don't think that it says what you claim.

amother

Tue, Mar 10 2015, 8:17 pm

I live in a two family house with 2 kids. My neighbor on top of me has 13 kids the oldest still in the teens. The noise is indescribable! They're dinette is ontop of my kids room & she serves breakfast @ 7:00 am. I never say a word to her unless it's an unreasonable hour, I keep saying to myself this is life with neighbors & I chose to live here. Sometimes is very hard to keep quiet though!

gp2.0

Tue, Mar 10 2015, 8:20 pm

Barbara wrote:

I agree with this, in addition, a study that focuses on children on a factory without a control group is not actually a study that can prove anything. It's more like an observation, that can lead to further study.

For example: it's possible children living with noise pollution were not read to as much as other children in the same building. It's possible they were not spoken to as much as other children in the same building. Etc. While those resulted from the sound, it is not the sound itself causing the issues but rather the side effects of the sound.

amother

Tue, Mar 10 2015, 8:22 pm

amother wrote:

I am op, and if I were to inconvenience someone to such an extent consistently like that, I would want to know, and I would be mortified! If I was you upstairs neighbor, and overlooked your needs like that, I would wish you would politely say something so we can work it out.

amother

Tue, Mar 10 2015, 8:25 pm

gp2.0 wrote:

You are both right, I am still wary, and will do my research. Thank you for bringing these points to my attention, as I may not have seen all the angles you have brought up.

amother

Tue, Mar 10 2015, 9:26 pm

amother wrote:

Op, at first when they moved in a used to say the noise is bothering me but her excuse was always "I have 13 kids, I can't control them!" So I told her afew things I will absolutely not tolerate & she must stick to it. When these things happen, I call & nag till it stops.

I'm so sorry that you have inconsiderate neighbors. You are wise for choosing your battles.

Lady Bug

Tue, Mar 10 2015, 9:30 pm

supty wrote:

Wow-my 3 year old goes to sleep at around 830 and wakes up at 630. Naps for an hour or two on a good day! Sounds like the ops kids are getting a LOT of sleep!!

While 11-12 hours of sleep in 24 hours is normal, it is an average, meaning there will be some kids sleeping more and some sleeping less. My kids sleep 12 hours at night plus 2 hour nap and that's what they need to function. I don't force it, I follow their cues and this is what they need.

My kids are also fast aslleep by 6pm and the noise is bothersome. I use a noisemaker and room darkeners in the summer, and I moved one light sleeper away from the front of the house so it's less noisy.

amother

Tue, Mar 10 2015, 9:34 pm

amother wrote:

Tangent alert... We were a rambunctious bunch growing up, and our downstairs neighbor with her two kids suffered in silence (er, noise would be more precise, but that's the expression, anyway.) When we moved out, a childless couple bought our apartment. Meanwhile, the family downstairs grew, slowly but surely, and their rambunctious bunch's noise began bothering the couple upstairs...

I met that downstairs neighbor a while ago, and she told me how she understands now how hard it is to keep children quiet, how ironic the sitiuation is for her, and how sorry she feels for the couple upstairs.

What could be done? Such is life when we choose to live in close proximity to other people.

UQT

Tue, Mar 10 2015, 11:01 pm

OP, I feel for you that are frustrated with the situation. Putting kids to sleep on a quiet winter night can be challenging enough, forget about any outside noise.

That said, I will tell you that I think you should reconsider speaking to the kids. I have a 12 year old son and as much as we try to raise him to be considerate of others they are boys - at best they will be quiet for one day at worse they will mock you. These kids have been sitting in school from 7:30 to 5:00 and wont take well to people asking them to curtail their baseball game.

One neighbor in our complex spent an entire summer trying to get the kids outside their window not to play outside until 4:00 Shabbos afternoon so they could nap in peace. My kids still think she's crazy. (I'm reserving judgment). As much as I told the kids that we have to understand that people have different needs, they weren't staying cooped up inside on a gorgeous Shabbos afternoon. To respect our neighbor we all told her how bad we felt and we will try to work with our kids (we didn't work that hard) but bottom line is one person can't go against the flow of the neighborhood.

I don't have any ideas for you but hope you can work something out.

youngishbear

Wed, Mar 11 2015, 12:18 am

amother wrote:

"What could be done? Such is life when we choose to live in close proximity to other people."

That's right such is life...
But it ain't making it any easier if the moms excuse is always "I have 13 kids, I can't control them!"

I really really sympathize with your bedtime difficulties. My kids take forever to fall asleep, too. I find music or story cds help.

But you do understand that even speaking in whispers 13 kids will add up to noise? You want her to muzzle them?

She didn't mean to say she can't discipline them at all, just that she can't completely control their noise level. I'm still trying to find the volume button on my kids. I think they came without one. Wink

She could've been more sympathetic to your situation, though. I do agree with the poster who said you will be viewed as a nag or curmudgeon even if you ask politely. Do you want to be the neighbor everyone rolls their eyes at? You have the right to ask, but she was being honest about how they will react politely (hopefully) but probably not do much about it.

FranticFrummie

Wed, Mar 11 2015, 2:53 am

Given the obesity epidemic among American school children, I find this whole conversation interesting. The rest of the country has been advised to get their children away from the computer and TV, and to go outside and PLAY! It's the healthiest thing in the world for them, even better than making sure that they eat their spinach.

This isn't just for boys, either. Girls need to run around, squeal, giggle, and burn off energy and calories too. Learning to love exercise is something that needs to be encouraged early and often, so that it will become a habit that continues into adult life.

animeme

Wed, Mar 11 2015, 7:14 am

Side note. Op, I understand kids who need more sleep than the average. I've never encountered kids who routinely get fever from lack of that sleep, but I don't know you kids. Have you checked in with your doctor about all of this?

One thing that I do know is that I have relatives who have routinely gotten lethargic and ill from spending hours in an overheated apartment and not drinking enough to compensate. Just an idea; not commenting on the bedtime.

sunnybrook

Wed, Mar 11 2015, 8:42 am

amother wrote:

White noise machines and too much noise in general when the brain is developing have been associated with auditory processing disorders and learning disabilities. I can't source for you right now, but if you study neurological and childhood development, you will come across this mode of thought. I would rather not go there, if you know what I mean.

Never heard of this--is this supposed to mean that white noise can affect the brain development of a child who had no previous disabilities??? why, how?

Notsobusy

Wed, Mar 11 2015, 8:53 am

amother wrote:

Very unpopular op here.
I read everything everyone had to say, and realized that a lot of people read what I wrote, but didn't understand my pov at all. Apparently, when you have older children, or work late hours, etc, and have never been in my situation, it's hard to see my point. I get it.
I will bite the bait even though I went to bed crying last night from the insensitivity displayed. You saw that I was just trying to see all sides, and I got attacked for bringing up other points, valid or not in your eyes.

Op, I am so sorry, I'm sure I was one of those posters who made you cry. I would never want to make anyone cry. I tend to forget how differently things sound online then in real life. I will try to be more careful in the future.

amother

Wed, Mar 11 2015, 9:45 am

animeme wrote:

Thanks for your concern. Yes, I have brought it up with the doctor numerous times. Yes child drinks enough. When child is at home child drinks about 7 cups of fluids, and that's besides the babysitter. I was even concerned about child drinking too much, and spoke to the doctor. Child is perfectly healthy, just needs a lot of sleep or gets really cranky.

As a side note, parents who say that their toddler won't go to sleep before a late time, perhaps you missed their window, and now they are overtired, or perhaps they are too stimulated by the goings on in your home. I am able to tone everything down an hour before because my oldest is still very young. So, I am able to see her cues clearly. When we are away, I may miss her cues, and then she won't either go to bed on time-leading to fever. Therefore, I became very on top of it.