Spin-off disciplining someone else's child

amother

Thu, Mar 12 2015, 6:18 pm

How do you react when someone else has different ideas of "Discipline" then you do- I find it hard to have someone over who I know has more of a "soft" discipline approach. How do you handle it if if the mother is there but as I said- more of a "softie"? if she's not? If you are babysitting and you know the mother's not home? Lets say they are there for the whole shabbos? What would you want someone else to do with your kid?

mirror

Thu, Mar 12 2015, 8:31 pm

amother wrote:

What you would want someone else to do with your kids is very different from having a child over whose mother is a "softie".

When the mother is too much of a "softie," even if the mother is there, the child may:

1. Take things that are valuable and throw them on the floor

Lady

"My son is too young to know better" [age 4]

2. Put your child's toys in his pockets to take them home

Lady

"My son is too young to know better" [age 4]

3. Hit other children at whim

Lady

"My son is too young to know better" [age 4]

If you are alone with the child for an entire Shabbos and the mother is not there, you better believe I would tell the child:

"If you behave that way then I won't let you come back."

"These toys are only for children who behave."

But the child is not afraid of your or being punished, so no matter what you do, the child will probably make your life miserable.

amother

Thu, Mar 12 2015, 9:36 pm

And what happens if we're in the park and a kid goes around hitting everyone with a branch, and the mother is a 'softie',do I mention anything? I'm afraid for my own child. If it would've been my child holding the branch I wouldve taken it away, but the mother is sitting right next to me and saying put it down in sweetest softest way.

mommyla

Thu, Mar 12 2015, 10:03 pm

That mother's not a softie, she's a bad disciplinarian. I had a neighbor like that, and her kid terrorized the neighborhood and was (sometimes) admonished ("oh, sweetie, don't do that please!"). I had no choice but to tell him off firmly myself when he came after my kid, and after a few times the kid - and the mother - got the message.

Miri7

Thu, Mar 12 2015, 10:29 pm

I will nicely but firmly say "in our house we don't smash the toys/hit other people..." If the mom is present she usually gets the message.

A couple of times when my child has acted out at another person's house I will say "DC, the rules here are the same as at home. We don't throw balls inside/yell/whatever." That has worked and I can tell that the other mom is relieved that I wasn't going to let it fly.

Once one mom was at our house with three very young children. Those children were so poorly behaved I wanted to cry - for her and me. They were all over the place. The oldest wrecked up everything in sight - opening china cabinets, finding crayons and drawing on the walls, wrecking up nice big Lego projects and other toys. While the younger two were all over getting into trouble, the other couple we had as guests and DH and I were chasing them around. (Between us we had 7 other small children but ours were easy and well behaved)

It was Chag and We had to call poison control because one child managed to get way up under the back porch and ate some ant poison that was back there. Luckily it was non toxic (good for DH do buying the nontoxic kind. No wonder it never really worked on the ants.).

It was mayhem. For days afterwards I found things that they had destroyed. I have never in my life seen children leave such a trail of destruction. I felt so bad for the mom - she was a single mom and was struggling to manage. But I just could not invite them over again.

chani8

Fri, Mar 13 2015, 4:40 am

Treat the child as your guest, the same way you would an adult guest who is out of line. You'd go out of your way not to embarrass or cause conflict, right? Same with kids (over 3yo). Overlook as much as possible. Use requests. State your rules as questions, like, "This is how we do things here, I hope that's ok?" Be polite and accommodating. But not a door mat, and don't compromise on safety of course.

amother

Fri, Mar 13 2015, 2:55 pm

amother wrote:

I had something like this in my neighborhood - parents were inside the house, not watching their child outdoors. Child was going around hitting others with a stick, including my child. I called them about the behavior and got the "boys will be boys" line. I told them, calmly and firmly, that if the behaviors don't stop I will ask a shaila about whether I am allowed to report them for not watching their child, who is hurting other children in the neighborhood.

It stopped.

imasinger

Sat, Mar 14 2015, 8:48 pm

I love the advice of columnist Miss Manners (Judith Martin), who wrote a very funny and helpful book about child rearing.

She points out that unless the visitor is unable to be sent home, one states the rules but sends home the rulebreakers.

She also suggests stepping close and saying, "now, dear, that's not safe. I don't want anyone to get hurt."

Delivered with just a hint of menace, she suggests, so that the offender can compute just who may be at risk. (This can apply to neighborhood play as well as guests in the home).

In a situation where a child is staying for awhile, it is wise to clarify rules with mom in advance.

I don't think I would even host my own grandchildren without a clear understanding of how my DD would want me to handle problems.

I have challenging children myself, so I know how important it is to assess the visitor or playmate early, and do what it takes proactively to keep everyone safe. Why invite trouble? Watch the kids, and get an idea of how they are playing. I would not leave a hitter alone and unsupervised, for example.

If someone else's child grabs all the food I'll insist on their sharing. If they pocket toys, I'll say firmly, no, those have to stay here. Stand close with your hand out, and a firm demeanor, and offer praise for compliance.

I'd be really reluctant to put a kid in time out unless they were totally out of control and unable to calm.

Many kids who have permissive parents still can settle in to decent behavior at school or daycare. Once they test their host's limits, they may be capable of doing better.

dr. pepper

Sat, Mar 14 2015, 10:32 pm

For guests over without the parents....well they obviously trust me with their child. They had better trust my ability to discipline if necessary.
I certainly don't send my kids on play dates/for shabbos to anyone I'm not comfortable with in that way.

In terms of my own house: to repeat one poster already: my house, my rule. Unapologetically.

And if it's in neutral territory, if the parent is around I try to gauge the situation.
If the parent is not around, I will totally say my opinion.

But then again....no one has ever accused me of being a "softie" LOL

(insert evil laugh: mwahahahaha)

octopus

Sat, Mar 14 2015, 10:45 pm

shanie5 wrote:

My house, my rules. So if parent wont say s/t, I will.

Not directing comment at you just commenting on the ppl I know in my life that live by this mantra. ppl like this freak out when they go to a "softie" house and drive the hosts crazy that they are letting their kids do things that are making them nervous. I have relatives that make my blood pressure go up every year. "ooh!ooh! your child is taking something from the fridge! and they didn't ask permission!" I know. That's how it works in my house because I am not going to be driven crazy and become the slave every single time my kids want something. I respect your domineering rules when I go to your house. Respect my laid back atmosphere when you come to my house. Thank you.

manhattanmom

Sat, Mar 14 2015, 11:36 pm

octopus wrote:

I understand this. But what about when a kid crosses a different kind of line. Taking something from my fridge will likely not bother me as much as your child making fun of other children/classmates while in my home, or being mean to another child of mine--while in my home. I've been firm with one of my son's playdates when that happened. And he happens to still keep inviting himself over so I guess he wasn't that upset with me Smile

amother

Sun, Mar 15 2015, 1:49 am

I will offer a different perspective.
I have a friend with whom we have a opposite parenting style.
I can't be bothered by material loss. A 2 y.o. child tearing a book, puzzle pieces getting lost, drawing on the couch etc. - I take it as a fact of life, having young kids and their friends over.
But I have zero tolerance for manipulation, chutzpah, name calling and teasing, bossing around, unfair play etc.

My friend is an opposite. When you see her you think wow, she is so laid back! Her kids are hitting and are disrespectful to her dh, and they laugh it off that kids are being kids. Then all of a sudden you hear a shriek - someone made a one inch line with a pencil on the wallpaper behind a closet! At a meal, the kida are wearing a bib till the age of 6 and those who are over 6, they are reminding them every 5 minutes not to leave any stains on their shirts...

(I am now trying really hard to stay on top of our material possessions and check on the kids more often, as well as explain the value of things, because they were just used to us buying the new stuff when the old one gets broken.)

So once, her child was playing in my house and he was constantly playing one of my kids against the other one and locking him out of the room. I gave 1 warning that if he won't stop he will wait for his mommy on the couch. That didn't work, so I did tell him to wait on the couch till he is picked up ( 5 minites later). Hr chose to play by the door.

Was I out of line?

chani8

Sun, Mar 15 2015, 7:21 am

You weren't out of line. But I would just say, why punish? Instead, direct it how you want it to go. Get involved in a positive way, not in a punishing way. Change things up, even. Find something positive for the kids to do together. All that energy to punish, well, it's going to drain you and probably even make you feel a little bad about it. So use your energy to do something positive. That is how good teachers teach, imo. They can spend a lot of time punishing, or work hard to get kids involved in doing some good.

octopus

Sun, Mar 15 2015, 7:53 am

manhattanmom wrote:

I would absolutely get involved on something like this! I'm not laid back about derech eretz and chutzpah. I will say we don't talk like that in this house or we have a rule in our house. You can't be strict about everything and you can't be laid back about everything. I'm very into my kids independence (even young children). If you can get something yourself, then do it. And yes, I allow my kids to dump out every. single. toy. on a shabbos afternoon. And yipes! it's not a big deal to get your clothes dirty.

amother

Sun, Mar 15 2015, 8:29 am

chani8 wrote:

Thank you for your input. As I said, it was the end of the playdate anyway and they had been playing nicely till then.