Concerned of the language

amother

Sun, Mar 15 2015, 2:25 am

I am dying to make Aliyah and one of the biggest things holding me back is living in a country that isn't my mothers tongue. I don't know Hebrew that well and hate the idea of not being able to communicate well. I don't want to move and just stick with anglos as thats not really living there it's more like being on vacation. I want to be part of it and feel like I will be an outsider. Another issue is I don't want my kids to be held back because of this they are young oldest is 5 but still I work in a school here and see how foreign kids areally struggle and wouldn't want to put my kids though it.
Any Chizzuk or ideas?

grace413

Sun, Mar 15 2015, 2:39 am

It is a bit intimidating to live life in another language, but it's worth it to live in Israel.

You already have some Hebrew and you can build on that. Re your kids, the sooner you come, the easier it will be for them. They are young enough that it shouldn't be too difficult. I don't think most kids that come at that age struggled in school - mine didn't.

Do what you can to improve your Hebrew before you come.

Even if you live in an Anglo area you will have plenty of need and opportunity to speak Hebrew - with your kids school, the bank, the post office, the supermarket, etc.

Hatzlacha.

amother

Sun, Mar 15 2015, 2:54 am

OP I really dont have even the basics in speaking the language. I know words from Torah learning but thats it. I can't follow a conversation and I just feel like I would be so not in control living in a place where I can't communicate or understand well. It's very important for me to express myself well and if thats taken away from me I would feel vulnerable. And that would affect y and my H chances of jobs. we don't have degrees bit both have worked hard in what we do (me teaching and him office work mainly admin work and he's really good at it) and I feel that would be taken away from us once we have to do this in in a foreign language.

Also where I live there are many Israelis who move the whole time and I see how they and they kids struggle with the language barrier bit more important if they couldn't make it financially there why would we- foreigners make it?? They are all moving here because financially it's too much for them.

My heart wants to go but my head isn't convinced.

DrMom

Sun, Mar 15 2015, 3:08 am

If you make aliyah, you get free ulpan (Hebrew language instruction). Take advantage of it!

I agree it is frustrating to not understand 100% of what is being said around you. You will be able to get by if you study, though.

As far as your children go: 5 is young! Assuming no learning disabilities or similar issues, s/he will probably be able to do just fine here. He'll pick up the language. I wouldn't worry about holding him back a grade if he arrives when he's only 5. It's not like there are any grades in gan, and first grade is mostly learning the alphabet and learning how to read (even though most gans essentially teach this). IMO, for better or for worse, the academic expectations are rather low-key in the lower grades. In our local mamad school, olim are assigned partners from among the class body who can help them. My bilingual kids are often asked to help Anglo olim understand their lessons, and the teachers understand if olim can't do every assignment on the level of native Hebrew speakers.

As far as moving into areas with other Anglos: I think it helps, as long as you are not in a total "bubble."

chani8

Sun, Mar 15 2015, 4:14 am

I am terrible at hebrew and I thought I'd learn it, but unfortunately, I'm apparently language delayed in Hebrew, although it took many years here to realize I just wasn't going to get it. I actually do great in ulpan but can't manage outside the classroom at all for some reason. So I'm saying, your worries are totally valid.

That said, I would rather be here, struggling myself, having raised hebrew speaking children who are likely going to marry hebrew speakers. I can't keep up with their hebrew. But I console myself that I am in the holy land among am yisroel, and I'd rather be here than anywhere else in the world.

This country is based on immigrants. Probably half the country is 'learning' hebrew as a second language. What I've discovered, is that so many people speak english. True, I cannot understand the news broadcasts or read the community newspapers. But I feel that my hardships are worth it. My kids are Israeli, and that makes my struggles totally worth it.

Just fyi, we came over when my oldest was almost 5. That was a good time to move. And Aliya was one of the best decisions of my life.

salt

Sun, Mar 15 2015, 4:21 am

I don't think living with Anglos is like being on vacation. (I wish!) I think that's just very sensible - making your integration easier, by living with others like you, who know where you're coming from, and who you can communicate with.
Like someone above said, you'll still interact with Israelis. You won't escape Israeli life (for better or for worse!).

amother

Sun, Mar 15 2015, 4:22 am

OP here so Chani8 I heat you but what about getting a job with no language background? And how do you feel that you cant communicate properly to your kids? I hear you that half the country is immigrants and thats good to hear so its likely its different than how I view foreigners here. My oldest is 5 but cant see this happening in at least a year ans although he isn't learning disabled he is a very quiet kid and I would be worried how he would do socially with a new language.

I work in a school and see how kids struggle academically years later bc of it and bc of second language being spoken at home so I guess I dont want them going through it.

water_bear88

Sun, Mar 15 2015, 4:42 am

It probably depends on where you are religiously, but would you consider applying to join a dati kibbutz? I know it's not for most people, but I've met one or two people who did that with young families (some years ago, but there are definitely still kibbutzim looking for new young members). Full immersion is an excellent way to learn the language, and I've found that kibbutznikim tend to be very welcoming to new olim who want to learn Hebrew fluently.

chani8

Sun, Mar 15 2015, 4:44 am

amother wrote:

Oh, priority one is that we speak english in the home. Or rather, hebrish and yeshivish, that is english, hebrew, and yiddish. The point is, you must speak to your child in your native language. Your children will learn the surrounding language outside the home.

My kids were shy, too, and they picked it up. The first few years are hard. If you are planning to make aliya, then do your family a favor and learn hebrew together now. You and your husband can learn with Rosetta Stone, but you may want to hire a tutor for the children and family to learn together in a fun way.

As far as getting a job, it is basically impossible for me, I think. So I do child care in my home. My husband is a patent writer, in english. He was a principal of secular studies, as well as a math and science teacher before making aliya. He couldn't teach in hebrew so he had to find something else to do.

amother

Sun, Mar 15 2015, 5:14 am

OP so Chani8 it seems like we will really struggle financially. As I wrote my heart is dying to be there but my head doesn't see how it is practical. The last thign we want to be is failed yeridahs. We dont have an extra penny to our name right now and live from pay check but we are managing fine here just no extras. yes the rent and living expenses should be much mower on Israel but we need an income to support that!!

catonmylap

Sun, Mar 15 2015, 5:19 am

There are different places with differing amounts of English speakers....

we have a good amount here -- we have a good group of friends, but we aren't living totally among them(all of our immediate neighbors are Israelis) --The Anglos in my area are spread over a larger area... there's a good number of English speakers in my son's class, but it's not too many...

There is something between being surrounded by English speakers and being the only English speaker around....

In terms of jobs, it depends on your profession... I've moved toward jobs where English is an advantage...
There are some people who come with less Hebrew than I did and jump right into very Hebrew speaking professions....

if you oldest is 5, now is the time to come... every year, you wait it gets harder...

amother

Sun, Mar 15 2015, 6:00 am

grace413 wrote:

Private tutoring in English pays very nicely.

Many teachers retrain to become English language teachers.

OP: but wouldnt I need an excellent command of Hebrew? Is there really such a high demand for English tutoring? And what about my husband? He does great in admin work: bookkeeping, managerial etc he has a lot of experience in this but not a great Hebrew it's much better than mine but still poor.
Any ideas where we should look into? We are looking for cheapest possible rent but where there are jobs and what about schools? Are the schools good? don't really know anyone who has made Aliya besides relatives who have always lived there and acquaintances so really in the deep end with this.

water_bear88

Sun, Mar 15 2015, 6:06 am

amother wrote:

Cheapest possible rent works well with wanting to be somewhere without a ton of Anglos. The north and south of the country have more positions open for English teachers, much lower rent, and fewer Anglos. (The majority of Anglos are concentrated in the center of the country, where rent is higher and other jobs are more widely available. Teaching is one of the highest-demand jobs in the geographical periphery because of a lack of supply.)

finallyamommy

Sun, Mar 15 2015, 6:28 am

I didn't read all the replies, but--

If you live in a "mixed" Anglo/Israeli area (parts of Jerusalem qualify, but I've never really lived anywhere else, so I can't give other examples offhand), you can sort of ease into Hebrew and people are understanding when you don't speak it well at first, and they tend to be eager to practice their English on you. I've lived here for nearly five years, and although I think my Hebrew's improved, it is definitely not fluent and it's been fine.

amother

Sun, Mar 15 2015, 5:42 pm

I lived in EY for 3 years, teaching English, when I was single. Was friends with lots of Anglo families who hadn't picked up the language too well. They managed okay financially if at least one of the parents had a useful skill that was in demand that didn't require great Hebrew. So for example, one family I was close with, the father was a plumber, in another family, the father was an airplane mechanic. They got by with so-so Hebrew because their skills were needed and Hebrew wasn't essential. The people who had bad Hebrew and only had job skills that required good language skills, were in a more challenging situation. I don't think your husband would have an easy time finding admin work. The question is, does he have other skills he could use to start on a new career path--maybe computer skills?

As far as teaching goes, teaching pays a pittance in EY. If you live in an area where a lot of students want English tutoring for the Bagrut, you can make a decent hourly amount tutoring. However, there are a ton of people looking to tutor, it's pretty competitive. Also you would need to be available afternoons and evenings.

FranticFrummie

Sun, Mar 15 2015, 6:16 pm

OP, is English your first language? Your spelling, punctuation, and sentence structure feel like you were raised in a Yiddish speaking home. There are many Yiddish neighborhoods in Israel where you could get acclimated, and your kids could learn in a Yiddish cheder.

amother

Mon, Mar 16 2015, 3:09 am

OP here. Sorry I have been writing hastily and on a semi broken phone so I apologise if my grammar and sentence structure haven't met your demands . And no I am not from a Yiddish speaking home (I understand it if that helps but my kids don't) and nor are my kids embarrassed

. Yes English is my first and only language besides learning French as a second language in school. There is no way I would want to send my kids to a Yiddish speaking Cheder. We are not Chassidish.