Lessons of crime and punishments

m in Israel

Mon, Mar 16 2015, 5:02 pm

MagentaYenta wrote:

It's likely these tutors were funded from grants under No Child Left Behind. It's my understanding that tutors under this program were not required to have minimum standards. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) Need was established by poverty levels in school districts. Parents or teachers could recommend children to these tutors. (IRRC)

As to mandatory reporting, it's not something that has been shown to work well among private Jewish schools as documented by some abuse cases reported in the mainstream press.

How this worked in areas like KY or Lakewood will probably come out in a few years. Districts must respond to state audits first. It's a very lengthy process.

That was my initial assumption as well, but I thought that SES could only be provided for students in public schools. If it was available for private school students as well it would make sense according to the description -- there is no specific testing or screening of the individual student in order to receive these services (as opposed to actual special ed services). If the family met the income requirements for free or reduced student lunches, and the school was a Title 1 eligible school categorized as "in need of improvement" for a few years in a row, the child was eligible regardless of actual academic need.

MagentaYenta

Mon, Mar 16 2015, 8:43 pm

m in Israel wrote:

There could be loopholes. Like I said, I could be wrong. I know that in some of the stuff I read about re: NY that these tutors could be provided to the school by another community organization.

amother

Mon, Mar 16 2015, 9:26 pm

Maya wrote:

It's so amusing how you all hash out the legalities of this as if Chassidish schools give a rat's you-know-what about them. Lol. Don't worry, they have ways of getting around EVERYTHING.

It blows my mind that a group of uneducated people from an insular community who supposedly know nothing about the modern, secular world know exactly how to manipulate a secular system they themselves shun. But hey, if the govt allows it then I fail to see how it could even be considered fraud. Of course, I would think that its against the torah/halacha and therefore not allowed but I guess this is what it means when they say that chasidim go lifnim meshiras hadin. Its just mind boggling that this is going on.

marina

Mon, Mar 16 2015, 11:26 pm

amother wrote:

All of this is just sickening. Locking kids up in closets, putting them in weaker classes, beating them, etc. Its a crazy world. How do these people become principals? Where are the parents? The teachers?
I am assuming that you need to be tested and diagnosed with a learning disability in order to put someone in a resource learning class. So who tests these kids? Psychologists? Social workers? If so, they are mandatory reporters and would have to report whats going on. If thats the case then the govt would be doing something about this abuse but if its not the case then how is the school getting govt money for a resource room?

What resource room are you talking about? You are responding to someone who used the term "slow track" not resource room. This is what she wrote:

Quote:

Even if it is physical punishment, it's a far cry from my DH's descriptions of being hit on the palm with a ruler until his hand was swollen and black-and-blue. What I found even more horrifying was my DH's description of a boy his age who was put into the "slow track" for no reason other than the principal didn't like his father. The smart, capable boy was reduced to learning at a lower level and being labeled as "not the greatest learner" when it came to shidduchim. For no reason. Breaks my heart.

There's nothing here about a resource room, educational testing etc etc. There's just a guy tracking kids into gemara classes according to how he feels about the parents.

BlueRose52

Mon, Mar 16 2015, 11:40 pm

amother wrote:

Anyone who knows anything about these communities knows how mistaken it is to think that the guys who are in charge of managing things are uneducated (about these things) and know nothing about the secular world. They are very smart, very politically savvy and very sophisticated when it comes to things like this.

amother wrote:

But hey, if the govt allows it then I fail to see how it could even be considered fraud.

What makes you think they allow it?

ra_mom

Mon, Mar 16 2015, 11:53 pm

amother wrote:

Yes but if you want services from the board of ed then you need to get tested by someone who is licensed. So do the schools have fake psychologists or social workers, speech therapists etc. testing these kids? Otherwise, how would we know that the kids actually need help? And if the psychologists and social workers etc are fake then wouldnt the govt know that and penalize them for fraud/practicing without a license? Something seems very off here.

Title 1 is not funded by the board of ed. It is not special ed. It is a federally funded program that is available to schools that have children from low income levels. Funds are provided to pay for teachers to pull out children who are on lower level of learning and having trouble keeping up with the rest of the class. This is for any child in that school (even at a higher income bracket) that the teachers determine are not keeping up with reading, writing and arthithmitic. The teachers do not need licenses. But the funds cannot be used to tutor children in gemara or to make believe they are tutoring anything when they are not.

amother

Tue, Mar 17 2015, 9:47 am

ra_mom wrote:

So there is no one overseeing these programs to ensure that the right kids get the right services and/or that no one is committing any fraud. Which means that the community can do whatever they want as they have no one to answer to. It doesnt really make any sense (that the govt would just give schools money amd allow them to decide how to allocate it) but I'll take your word for it.
However, this means that the only person Deen incriminated by writing his story is himself. He admitted to falsifying documents and to hitting at least one child. The community can deny that anyone else did such things, in fact, they can say that they kicked Deen out because he did it. The community will say, oh look, we took him in after his father died, provided him with an education, wife etc and then he turns around and does such things so we had no choice but to kick him out so that others wouldnt be effected by his criminal/bad behavior. And the community wins once again. Scary.

summer0808

Thu, Mar 19 2015, 10:37 am

OT, but GP2.0 we may have gone to school together. I remember the other class had the story with the closet. Was Mrs. K the principal who blocked the door so you couldn't get out? Personally, I don't think that was cruel punishment. The class hid in the closet so the principal came and blocked the closet so they couldn't get out. I think it was a very smart move!

gp2.0

Thu, Mar 19 2015, 10:45 am

summer0808 wrote:

Yes it was Mrs. K. LOL

Like I said, at the time we thought it was hilarious. Actually, I still think of it with a smile. I don't think it was cruel. But looking back at it, I don't think it was appropriate, either.

The emotional abuse, guilt tripping about seforim chitzonim and tznius and gehinnom actually had effects that lingered for much longer.

gp2.0

Thu, Mar 19 2015, 11:18 am

summer0808 wrote:

Oh my! Now all day I'm going to be thinking and trying to figure you out! BTW, I recently told my girls the story as a way of telling them cute 'trouble' that we did. DDs class is similar to what your class was like!

Haha, go ahead. (Just PM me if you figure out who I am. Don't post it here. Smile

)

It is actually possible for a small number of people to figure out who I am based on posts here, you may be one of them.

I hope you won't be insulted if not only do I not try to figure out who you are, but also if I don't remember you at all. It was a long time ago and I certainly don't remember every kid in the grade. LOL