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Forum -> Judaism -> Halachic Questions and Discussions
Who owns divorcees and widows?



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chani8




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 16 2015, 5:55 am
A husband owns his wife
and a father owns his unmarried daughters
but
who owns a divorcee
or a widow??

Translate 'own' as 'is obligated to' or however is the PC way to say it. But please answer the question, who owns a divorcee or a widow? Who can bitul her vows?

Is she exempt from time bound mitzvos? Why?
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water_bear88




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 16 2015, 6:02 am
A father only owns unmarried daughters under the age of 12.5. A divorcee or widow is the same as a single woman more than half a year past her bat mitzva- she's the only one who can bitul her vows. She owns her own property.

She's still exempt from time-bound mitzvot, maybe because the "natural" state for a woman is considered marriage? (Not saying I personally agree with that.)
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myself




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 16 2015, 6:04 am
Isn't a girl also exempt from time-bound mitzvos?
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Raisin




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 16 2015, 6:07 am
water_bear88 wrote:
A father only owns unmarried daughters under the age of 12.5. A divorcee or widow is the same as a single woman more than half a year past her bat mitzva- she's the only one who can bitul her vows. She owns her own property.

She's still exempt from time-bound mitzvot, maybe because the "natural" state for a woman is considered marriage? (Not saying I personally agree with that.)


and a widow or divorcee can still have young children.
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chani8




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 16 2015, 7:05 am
I seem to recall that as long as she's not married, the father can bitul her vows.
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imasoftov




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 16 2015, 7:30 am
Hoshea 2:19
וַהֲסִרֹתִי אֶת שְׁמוֹת הַבְּעָלִים מִפִּיהָ וְלֹא יִזָּכְרוּ עוֹד בִּשְׁמָם
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greenfire




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 16 2015, 10:59 am
I take care of myself - nobody owns me ...
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 16 2015, 12:01 pm
greenfire wrote:
I take care of myself - nobody owns me ...


Where's You Don't Own Me link when you need one? Tongue Out
Seriously, I think lots of people here will nod to this: as far as time-bound mitzvos, yes, they have family. Even if they don't they may still have obligations that preclude fulfilling everything.
What differences are there before and after marriage, for a never married and a married woman? What of a woman who has kids but they're older?
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chani8




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 16 2015, 2:07 pm
So, what is the reason women are exempt from time bound mitzvos???

Why would unmarried women be exempt? If they have no children and no husband and aren't helping their own mother.
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Raisin




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 16 2015, 5:20 pm
chani8 wrote:
So, what is the reason women are exempt from time bound mitzvos???

Why would unmarried women be exempt? If they have no children and no husband and aren't helping their own mother.


maybe because traditionally women were often cast into a caring role, whether or not they had children? eg a daughter would look after elderly parents, help care for nieces and nephews etc. A married women with children might have a houseful of servants and no real excuse not to do timebound mitzvos either...

Interestingly, in historical times the best thing a woman could be was a widow with some money. (not just in Jewish circles) She had control of her own money and life.
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Pandabeer




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 16 2015, 5:28 pm
a divorced woman or widow is not obliged to anyone - she belongs to herself and even her money belongs to her personally, more, even when she remarries, the money she comes with stays hers, it never belongs to the new husband
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werty




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 16 2015, 6:03 pm
I dont think the differences between men and women's obligations are just technical. A woman is essentially different to a man, and her service of G-d is essentially different.

he needs spirtual structure to help him connect to Hashem, she is more spiritually in tune by nature. He needs time limited mitzvos to make him aware of using time well. She has an inbuilt clock - her period.
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Frumdoc




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 16 2015, 7:26 pm
I'm not sure the two have to be associated, although many of us learned these concepts in an certain manner that entwines them.

So the exclusion from some (not all)positive time bound mitzvot is not necessarily anything to do with the "ownership" or legal responsible adult. Although you can interpret them in similarly negative ways - women are incompetent to manage doing mitzvot on time and /or handle their own money/ legal vows/ important decisions.

I don't know where the cultural v halachic v spiritual v authentic Torah lines lie. I haven't learn enough, although there are many women who have written extensively about it.

I think traditionally divorced or previously married now single women have always had the most financial and societal freedom compared to still married or never married women, look at Gluckl of Hamlyn. Or Rus.

Plus, I think any answers are going to be so colored by the religious sect the individual belongs to that it is not a discussion to have on here in a productive way. Any answer I will accept would only come from someone whose view of womenkind is at least on a par with mine. I'm guessing most people would feel similarly.

So telling me that a woman's brain works differently to a man's brain, and can't think in a logical or objective manner to make unemotional decisions, so can't be trusted with eidus or financial responsibility, or higher education or learning gemara, etc - may be acceptable to some, but not to me (yes, that was the explanation I got in high school). But I know many many who subscribe to this opinion and would call my disagreement kefira.
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