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Letter I received
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naturalmom5




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 22 2015, 3:53 pm
Shalom, I am sure you are involved in the tragedy which took place this Shabbos. According to what I heard it was a hot-plate, and it was in an old home. I would like to suggest, that in recent years the code requires ‘GFCI’ outlets for the kitchens and bathrooms. It is a computer-controlled circuit breaker so it detects abnormalities in the electric line and trips much sooner than a regular breaker which relies on the line getting warm and then a spring trips.
I once read that a man came to R’ Avigdor Miller ZTZ”L and said that he had left a tea near the edge of the table, and his three-year-old son had pulled it off and gotten burnt. He asked Rav Miller what he has to do teshuva on. R’ Miller said, ‘there is something you have to do teshuva for; from now on you should not leave teas near the edge of the table.’ He said, ‘rebbi, of course I won’t, but I feel I need to do teshuva on something!’. Rav Miller answered, ‘you’re right, from now on you should not leave teas near the edge of the table!’. And he realized that was exactly what he meant. I think here too, there should be a kabala; if one wants to be mekabel something else like more tzedaka or greater shemiras Shaboos, maybe, but perhaps the greatest kabala should be the above.
About thee GFCI breakers, there are also GFCI ‘adapters’ that can be plugged into one plug, these are very important for portable appliances and window-unit air-conditioners. (I remember about five years ago there was a fire in the home of an elderly yid in Brooklyn, and it also, I believe, was because of a loose connection in the plug of an air-conditioner. In recent years, the window-units all have a breaker built into the plug [that is the two buttons in the plug]. Obviously they realized it is important enough).
There are also GFCI circuit-breakers for the main panel in the house, however they are not required by code , and since they are more expensive, they are not put in unless requested. But I’m thinking that in an older home, it would be very important to have them because there can be loose electrical connections. Above all, if one knows of any loose connection in the home wiring or in an appliance, it should be fixed immediately/discontinued to use.
I think all the above should be considered matters of life-and-death, and no amount of money may considered too much for these matters.
You may want to print this in the summer safety book and email it to contact etc.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 22 2015, 4:22 pm
I would consider editing this and omit the story with Rabbi Miller.
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zaq




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 22 2015, 4:35 pm
Why leave out the Rabbi Miller story? I think davka it should stay in, the lesson being that rabbanim, if not their congregants, know the difference between religious matters and matters of common sense.

or, in the words of the late Charles Schultz: http://www.gocomics.com/peanuts/2014/09/30

(Sorry, I could not embed the image)
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debsey




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 22 2015, 4:40 pm
zaq wrote:
Why leave out the Rabbi Miller story? I think davka it should stay in, the lesson being that rabbanim, if not their congregants, know the difference between religious matters and matters of common sense.

or, in the words of the late Charles Schultz: http://www.gocomics.com/peanuts/2014/09/30

(Sorry, I could not embed the image)


I think there's this desire to not blame the victim - or to not make the survivors feel WORSE warring with the desire to educate the public about common sense safety measures.

I don't have the answer - I'm just saying - I can hear both sides.
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debsey




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 22 2015, 4:46 pm
PinkFridge wrote:
I would consider editing this and omit the story with Rabbi Miller.


In Israel, how does it work in terms of building inspections? Who is in charge of the C.O. (certificate of occupancy, or whatever is the Israeli equivalent?) Is it the landlord's job or the occupant's?
In the US, the landlord bears the lion's share of responsibility.

It seems like this was an old family home, and possibly very behind on inspections. I do know that you cannot get a CO in the US unless the inspector personally tests every single smoke alarm and makes sure that there are the minimum amount per floor.

As much as I grumble about the inconvenience of working with the inspectors (I have a rental property), who often say they'll come on a Tuesday but then show up at a crazy hour on a Thursday, (Like, I take off from work and am at the property 9 AM on Tues. I wait hours. NO show. Then I get this indignant call at 4PM on a Thursday two weeks later, it's the inspector wanting to be let in!)

They won't allow me to rent my property until they've checked everything, there's a certain sensation of security KNOWING that someone is checking all this stuff and not leaving it all to my (sometimes faulty) memory!

This could very well be a family newly here from Israel who didn't realize that the system is different, with all the other adjustments they had to make.
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greenfire




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 22 2015, 4:52 pm
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greenfire




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 22 2015, 4:54 pm
I understand what pinkfridge is saying & I also understand what zaq is saying ...

there is a fine line - nobody wants to blame the victims ... but what can we do for the future is to have alerted fire safety precautions - over & beyond the normative
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MagentaYenta




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 22 2015, 4:57 pm
Remember that if you breaker box is out of date a GFI will not stop an electrical fire.
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debsey




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 22 2015, 4:58 pm
MagentaYenta wrote:
Remember that if you breaker box is out of date a GFI will not stop an electrical fire.


Help me understand this. Why not?
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MagentaYenta




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 22 2015, 5:11 pm
debsey wrote:
Help me understand this. Why not?


The GFI breaks the delivery of the power to the appliance from the wiring at the socket. The electric wiring can still have over heated and will not trigger the aluminum breaker at the the breaker box. It can actually fuse/melt that switch so that power is still being provided to the circuit causing an internal electrical fire. This is a special concern to people who live in older homes built prior to 1959. Post WW2 (1959 is a benchmark) aluminum breakers were common as people replaced fuse boxes.
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debsey




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 22 2015, 5:15 pm
MagentaYenta wrote:
The GFI breaks the delivery of the power to the appliance from the wiring at the socket. The electric wiring can still have over heated and will not trigger the aluminum breaker at the the breaker box. It can actually fuse/melt that switch so that power is still being provided to the circuit causing an internal electrical fire. This is a special concern to people who live in older homes built prior to 1959. Post WW2 (1959 is a benchmark) aluminum breakers were common as people replaced fuse boxes.


OK, so since my homes are all new construction, this isn't something I have to worry about, correct? I'm only saying this because no one has ever raised this as a possible concern.
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MagentaYenta




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 22 2015, 5:19 pm
debsey wrote:
OK, so since my homes are all new construction, this isn't something I have to worry about, correct? I'm only saying this because no one has ever raised this as a possible concern.


No it isn't a concern in a new home.
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zaq




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 22 2015, 6:57 pm
greenfire wrote:


Thank you Greenie! How did you do that?
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greenfire




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 22 2015, 7:35 pm
zaq wrote:
Thank you Greenie! How did you do that?


anything for you dear Wink [except hugs cause you scare me]
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greenfire




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 22 2015, 7:37 pm
hey debsey we wrote the same thing - I just realized it now What
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 22 2015, 7:49 pm
I'm just grateful that no one (yet) is blaming this tragedy on the length of sheitels or hemlines. Rolling Eyes
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debsey




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 22 2015, 8:57 pm
FranticFrummie wrote:
I'm just grateful that no one (yet) is blaming this tragedy on the length of sheitels or hemlines. Rolling Eyes



just wait......
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debsey




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 22 2015, 8:58 pm
greenfire wrote:
hey debsey we wrote the same thing - I just realized it now What


You know what they say about great minds........ Not worthy
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greenfire




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 22 2015, 9:07 pm
debsey wrote:
You know what they say about great minds........ Not worthy


we never differ Wink
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 22 2015, 9:31 pm
For those of us who are not electricians, can someone explain in plain English what we need to do to our electrical circuits? (USA apartment building, about 60ish years old)
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