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Public School
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Shuly




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 24 2015, 5:59 pm
I understand sending to public school when a child has special needs and there are no frum options. I also understand sending a 4 or 5 year old to Early Intervention at a public school.
But it does not sounds like OP's child has any disabilities or is in any need of special education and he is too old for EI.

The best way to choose a school (this is for religious schools too) is to visit it and the end of the day and watch the kids who leave. Do this a few times and see if that is how you want your child to be when he is older.

OP, have you met any of the older kids in this school? Are they how you want your son to look/dress/think/act when he is their age?
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Ema of 5




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 24 2015, 6:23 pm
amother wrote:
One of my kids is in a non jewish school because of learning disabilities. There's no local frum option even remotely suitable because he's a more serious case. Anyhow, the supplemental jewish program we've put together with tutors pales in comparison to what my other kids are doing. But we have no choice other than to relocate states away. Seriously, if you think that what your kid will be learning with a rebbe or judaics tutor after 4pm every day and on Sundays is close to what they receive in a frum school, you're wrong.

What my son learned from me teaching him at home was BETTER than what boys his age were learning in yeshiva. He came into Pre-1A ahead of most of the boys in his class. Do you think homeschooled kids don't learn as well as school system kids? I've seen plenty of yeahiva kids who are sorely lacking not only in basics, like Chumash and stuff like that, but also in midos. Isnt the torah they are learning supposed to refine their midos? When I used to take my kids to the park in shabbos when they were little, I soecifically took them to the one with more non Jewish kids, because they were better behaved.
Like I said before, it's all about what kids learn from their parents. If you put your heart into it and don't look at it as a chore, they will get all they need and more.
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BrachaBatya




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 24 2015, 6:24 pm
Often our children thrive in public schools. Depending on where you live, the public schools may be excellent (I know ours are, BH). Many of the teachers are Jewish and the school district closes for all major Jewish holidays in our area. And, as others have said, if your child needs any sort of extra support, typically he/she will receive far more of that in the public school arena.
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amother
Papaya


 

Post Tue, Mar 24 2015, 6:40 pm
I'm the amother who's son is an a school for learning disabilties. If you are homeschooling you will have enough hrs in the day to take care of each subject but if your child is in a regular school til 3 or 4pm, there are simply not enough after school hrs to handle judaics in the same way a child is learning at a jewish school. There's homework after schools and attention span is limited at the end of the day. The one hr a day my son gets at 5 pm is not ideal at all. I wish it could be another way but right now it can't.

For very young kids, obviously, it's a different story. School is not as heavy on academics for a kindergarten child so it's easy to handle at home. One of the PPs mentioned her son went into pre-1 A ahead...so you homeschooled judaics for nursery school? Smile I'm not really talking about 4-5 yr olds with my opinion/story.
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amother
Orchid


 

Post Tue, Mar 24 2015, 6:46 pm
I have 2 kids in public school. In our situation (hopefully this is not the case in most communities!) the middos at public school FAR FAR FAR exceed the middos at the Jewish schools. My kids are behind in limudei kodesh, but not terribly far because we have private tutors. Overall we are THRILLED with public school for our kids. Anon because I don't want you knowing which schools I'm talking about with poor middos.
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geulah papyrus




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 24 2015, 9:39 pm
[quote="Shuly"]

The best way to choose a school (this is for religious schools too) is to visit it and the end of the day and watch the kids who leave. Do this a few times and see if that is how you want your child to be when he is older.

/quote]

It sounds like you're fear-mongering here. The way a responsible parent chooses any school is by visiting the school during school hours and viewing the school in action. At the end of a long day, most kids have pent up energy that they are getting out when they leave.
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naturalmom5




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 24 2015, 11:40 pm
amother wrote:
I don't know because she started out behind. My kids went to public school until they were almost finished first grade. They lack the foundations the other kids have. It is more noticeable in the males because their curriculum is more vigorous.

They can never catch up. My son has been tested genius level. He has been doing college level secular work since the fourth grade when he was first tested. I have given him daily tutors for Hebrew studies for years. I spend more on tutors than I do his tuition. He still lacks something in his foundation.

There is something about how a child is formed in their formative years that you can't change.


How so
My husband and I are BT
He went to ps k-12
He also learned in brisk after 6 years of yeshiva here
How come some FFB from very good yeshivas know a lot less than him
The Ry and maggidi shiurim know ore
But your average Baal Bayis
Or yungerman no way
And they have an abysmal sec educ to boot
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oliveoil




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 24 2015, 11:42 pm
amother wrote:
I don't know because she started out behind. My kids went to public school until they were almost finished first grade. They lack the foundations the other kids have. It is more noticeable in the males because their curriculum is more vigorous.

They can never catch up. My son has been tested genius level. He has been doing college level secular work since the fourth grade when he was first tested. I have given him daily tutors for Hebrew studies for years. I spend more on tutors than I do his tuition. He still lacks something in his foundation.

There is something about how a child is formed in their formative years that you can't change.


this is one of the most ludicrous posts I've read here recently. There is obviously something more at play here. Plenty of kids come into Jewish schools significantly later than that and catch up just fine.
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nylon




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 25 2015, 12:17 am
The worst thing for a child is to be in a school that will make them negative about frumkeit. That is worse than public school.

Perhaps it varies by school and hashkafa, but in my experience, being in another environment up to kindergarten is not that big of a deal. A lot of educational experts think that academics should not be emphasized in preschool anyway, and a great deal of what is taught even in a frum preschool is not strict academics; it is comfort within a Jewish educational environment and that can be taught at home. The kids in secular preschools who are pushed to read at 4 don't turn out better long term than the ones who learn at 6 at their natural pace. Learning the alef-bet a year later is not make or break.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 25 2015, 1:55 am
amother wrote:
I have 2 kids in public school. In our situation (hopefully this is not the case in most communities!) the middos at public school FAR FAR FAR exceed the middos at the Jewish schools. My kids are behind in limudei kodesh, but not terribly far because we have private tutors. Overall we are THRILLED with public school for our kids. Anon because I don't want you knowing which schools I'm talking about with poor middos.


This was my experience as well. The kids from K-grade 5 were SO sweet on the average! Muslim, Buddhist, Xian, agnostic, they were all respectful, funny, kind, and cooperative. I chaperoned a lot of field trips, and over the years got to know several of them very well.

It's the upper grades where you have to get really serious, and be aware of outside influences. That's why we're making Aliyah, and keeping DD out of school until we move. She'll be held back a year until she catches up, but I don't care. I'm looking at the big picture, and I know that things will even out with time - and a little extra help from Hashem.
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amother
Rose


 

Post Wed, Mar 25 2015, 7:20 am
oliveoil wrote:
this is one of the most ludicrous posts I've read here recently. There is obviously something more at play here. Plenty of kids come into Jewish schools significantly later than that and catch up just fine.


It is never the same. It is like learning a foreign language. It is better to begin it as early as possible so it becomes more natural. There are always some differences the later you begin. 6 is late to miss the early years.

I notice the differences and they are subtle and it is an incomplete foundation. Perhaps to some like you, it looks like they caught up. Yes they can do grade level work, they still are different. I notice it in my kids and I notice it in other kids.

It is important to begin training as early as possible for things to be as natural as possible. The best horse riders begin to sit a horse long before 6. There is something to be said for beginning early training. The vast majority of educators would agree with me and think your post is ludicrous.
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chaos




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 25 2015, 7:31 am
Travel time is a legitimate factor in making the school decision. An hour of travel a day, which adds up over the weeks and months and years of school is not insignificant. There are plenty of studies that show the negative impact commuting has on adults - why would we think it would not affect children too? It's less sleep and less time to spend on other things too. I'm not saying one must necessarily rule out a yeshiva if it is a long commute, but that the OP is certainly wise to consider it as a factor in her school decision for her child.

My husband had a yeshiva education from elementary school through high school. There is a lot that he gained from it, but there were a lot of issues as well, with the long hours exacerbated by the long commute being really awful for him. He really would have done much better at a public school with some private tutoring just because of the hours and commute alone. Unfortunately, public school was an option his parents wouldn't consider and he really suffered that time. His relationship with Judaism took a hit as well.

I admit I don't have children and I went to public school, but I have a hard time believing that the pre-1A schooling years are the most formative. Really, what is one learning at that age that couldn't be taught in the home. A Jewish foundation is critical, but it has to start in the home regardless of where the child goes to school.
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Clarissa




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 25 2015, 7:48 am
After sending my older child to a Jewish school for eight years (and spending an unbelievable amount of our savings on tuition and extras) we moved him to public school. Our younger child has been in a public school since leaving a Jewish preschool.
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 25 2015, 8:27 am
I went to public school (didn't grow up frum) and my children now attend religious schools. I can see how much they learn at an early age and I think it's great. (I grew up in the US and children are being raised in Israel, so they also get total immersion in the Hebrew language, and that is a tremendous boost when it comes to limudei kodesh, so the comparison isn't 100% fair...)

I would not be thrilled about sending to Israeli secular public school, to say the least, but I might consider sending to US public school if I lived in some remote part of the US where there were no Jewish schools in my area. I would also strongly consider moving to an area with more suitable schools if I were in that situation.
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Rubber Ducky




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 25 2015, 9:07 am
It's not all or nothing.

Can you send to the public school next year AND
• make sure that he keeps up with the academics at the Jewish school (alef bais/reading, parsha)
• make sure that he has lots of playdates and interaction with frum kids
• work on creating a happy Jewish environment at home (right, we should all do that anyway)

and after that:
• seriously consider moving closer to a Jewish school OR
• homeschool OR
• team up with other frum parents in your area (are there any?) and start a frum school or joint homeschool, preschool up through grade 1 or so, after which the commute will be less arduous.
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tigerwife




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 25 2015, 9:11 am
A lot depends on the public achool in question. Not all PS's are created equal. I would never consider the schools near where I grew up, where the kindergartens proudly proclaimed they were a drug-free zone...
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naturalmom5




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 25 2015, 9:16 am
tigerwife wrote:
A lot depends on the public achool in question. Not all PS's are created equal. I would never consider the schools near where I grew up, where the kindergartens proudly proclaimed they were a drug-free zone...

The same can be said for Jewish schools
Compare a school made up of sincere idealistic baali. Tshuva in la jolla or Minnesota to your average Lakewood school
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amother
Brunette


 

Post Wed, Mar 25 2015, 9:56 am
amother wrote:
It is never the same. It is like learning a foreign language. It is better to begin it as early as possible so it becomes more natural. There are always some differences the later you begin. 6 is late to miss the early years.

I notice the differences and they are subtle and it is an incomplete foundation. Perhaps to some like you, it looks like they caught up. Yes they can do grade level work, they still are different. I notice it in my kids and I notice it in other kids.

It is important to begin training as early as possible for things to be as natural as possible. The best horse riders begin to sit a horse long before 6. There is something to be said for beginning early training. The vast majority of educators would agree with me and think your post is ludicrous.


Edited for undue cruelty because I was irritated with this another's high and mighty attitude.
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amother
Ecru


 

Post Wed, Mar 25 2015, 9:57 am
I don't think its a huge big deal to send to public school for the younger grades. However you will need to supplement for kodesh. Also I would say by 3rd/4th/5th grade it can start getting tough socially. Make sure the Jewish school you want to send to won't be difficult about taking a kid starting at a later age, due to space or other issues.

I sent my 3-4 year old to a non Jewish preschool since there were none where we lived. It wasn't ideal but she survived.
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amother
Ecru


 

Post Wed, Mar 25 2015, 10:02 am
Also, my husband went to public school for middle/high school. While he got a great secular education he was pretty miserable socially and I feel that till today he really misses having that network of friends that I have from school. (he did go later to yeshiva so has friends from there) While there were other Jewish boys he was the frummest one there by far and didn't have much to do with them outside of school.
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