YT gift for my sons kallah - no money!

amother

Wine

Thu, Apr 02 2015, 9:16 am

amother wrote:

OP here. You inferred things that I never said. I never said that the kallah is making demands of jewelry. I said in my OP that her and her family are making demands in general - wedding expenses and other related issues that I never saw coming. From the meetings weve had with her and her family, they seemed not to be the type to want certain things and now are telling DH and I that they are standard (not going into detail here because you never know who knows who on this board!). I do know that the Kallah is expecting (not really demanding, but is waiting for) this stuff (More Jewelry) because a number of people told me so - her parents, for starters, mentioned that her older sister got x,y,z jewelry and she was disappointed to not get it as well (her sister married into a really chassidish family for the record). She is apparently expecting a few more grand gifts from us. I know that there needs to be jewelry in the Yichud room - no problem. We already gave her a diamond ring and bracelet. When I got married it was pearls in the yichud room (to represent that she is more precious than pearls, from Eishes Chayil, but my friends have told me that pearls are "out" and people are now giving diamond earrings. I missed that part of eishes chayil I guess). So she wil get diamond earrings.

After reading this thread, I already decided that she will get a leather siddur with her name on it.
We were planning on giving a lichter, but now Im nervous about that after reading from amothers on here that they didnt get nice enough lichters. DH and I are planning on telling the store what we are willing to pay and let her go pick out what she wants. I dont want to be there with her in case its uncomfortable.

I'm the amother who doesn't like leichter. Saying you wont go makes me sad (though lots of mothers in law don't go with daughters in law but sounds like you would have liked to). It's good if they know which price range to show her and if she wants nicer she can always add money without you knowing.

About the diamond earrings--yeah, that's kind of what it is. I went with dh to pick them out and a trick I learned--don't tell them it's kallah earrings. They have more expensive section for those. I chose a really nice pair that was in $500 range instead of $2000 range. They are small for me but I'm quite large. They don't have huge selection of earring that would work for yichud room present (ie type she is likely expecting) but theyre a whole lot cheaper.

amother

Coral

Thu, Apr 02 2015, 9:17 am

rosehill wrote:

Nor do they accept charity money to pay for it. They might buy on credit, and pay for years at usurious rates, which I also think is stupid. And if I were on imasecular.com and saw a thread about it, I would say so. In any event, we don't measure our behavior by what secular people do, we measure it by what G-d wants from us.

There are people who don't have matza this Pesach. Or maybe they have matza but their kids don't have shoes. And we're advocating the use of community funds for bling.

There is money for matzoh and for kallahs in the community. No one is going without matzoh. One one in the community is going without anything else they need for Pesach. I was in a store yesterday and I saw a large family I know going wild buying tights and bows. The mom showed me she was given a $100 per girl certificate.

The matzoh factory, the dry goods, chicken facilities, etc all give their 10%. I have seen sedar plates complete with the food given out. Cases of Kedem wine, grape juice, cooking wines, oranges, apples, eggs, cheese, plastic wear, chocolate, white cloth table cloths, roasts, coffee and of course potatoes given out.

No one is going without to give a kallah what all her peers are getting.

imaima

Thu, Apr 02 2015, 9:22 am

SRS wrote:

During WWII, the currency of different European countries was near worthless with crazy inflation, so valuables took on greater worth. At different times in history, different things have greater and lesser value. Since we are doing into Pesach, we can point to the building of the Egyptian empire. While the entire region was in drought and famine, the good that had value was grain. When the makka of dam hit, for which Bnai Yisrael was not subject, water became the valuable resource and Bnai Yisrael, having fresh water was able to profit from the mitzri who needed water. If we look right now at the middle east we can see that ISIS is funding their rise through oil which they have stolen and seized.

Chazal, like a true financial advisory, offers up diversification. It is absolutely silly to load down young couples with valuables that really are not really readily marketable and leave them lacking US Currency which, despite inflation here and there, is the most marketable item worldwide. And frankly, I'm more concerned about a couple entering marriage with no money, without parents to fall back on, and without the means to just buy each other a bunch of gifts which clearly is holding a high place in their lives right now. I am fairly certain that if the Nazis were to invade out city, we can flee and relocate a lot quicker than our china cabinet full of silver neighbors.

Excuse me, US currency as well as US is how old??
And now that you are talking about pessach, let's talk about makkat choshech and Jews taking gold from Egyptian homes.

imasoftov

Thu, Apr 02 2015, 9:24 am

amother wrote:

You desperately need a course in cultural sensitivity.

I suppose MO girls who are busy having tehillim dates and whoring themselves before the wedding in hopes of getting married would not have the same trepidation as virgins do on their wedding night.

FYI I never met a reluctant kallah. The vast overwhelming majority eagerly are anticipating getting married. I have been to numerous chassunahs where the young kallahs are hoping for a glimpse of their future husband. They draw me over to the mehitzah and show me him.

These young girls don't need to be bribed. You mistake the reason for the gifts. The couple has their household set up for them. They are given so the couple has what married people do. All married ladies wear a certain type of jewelry starting out.

While I can appreciate your enthusiasm in taking it to the next level, people no longer call premarital relations "whoring" unless it's for loot.

oliveoil

Thu, Apr 02 2015, 9:27 am

amother wrote:

Can you think beyond your own community for a minute? Or do you only give "tzedaka" within the group? I wonder if that even counts...

dancingqueen

Thu, Apr 02 2015, 9:30 am

amother wrote:

[b]

So what do you call that if not a bribe? Why does everyone need the same jewelery as 19 year old brides?

Listen, I love jewelry as much as the next girl, and I'm lucky that my dh is able to gift me with it. But this is just bizarro.

Im a big fan of young men working even very part time to be able to give their kallahs/wives gifts and more importantly to afford the basics. Much more meaningful than gifts from in laws. But that would be scandalous in those circles right?

Barbara

Thu, Apr 02 2015, 9:32 am

imaima wrote:

I wonder why everyone bashes chassidim and other "special circles"? As if secular people are not materialistic at all? Go to any non-Jewish board or a wedding Pinterest board and you will see what people spend their money on! Everyone expects at least a carat, and their kids own an Iphone by the age of 7.

I'm not bashing Chassidim.

But outside of this discussion, I have never heard of people asking for charity so that they can purchase jewelry.

Can you please provide a link to a Pinterest board or other site in which people are discussing charities that give them money to buy diamond bracelets and other such things.

Happy18

Thu, Apr 02 2015, 9:36 am

Barbara wrote:

I've heard of it and I think it's ridiculous. I'm not going to deny that non frum people spend a lot on jewelry. A family member informed me that anything less than $20,000 on an engagement ring is an insult. However, he would be buying that type of jewelry for his bride NOT his parents. There's the difference. Outside of the frum world the concept of accepting charity for jewelry is laughable.

Barbara

Thu, Apr 02 2015, 9:40 am

mommy2b2c wrote:

I am not MO. I was not bribed. And I got a ton of expensive jewelry and other gifts. In fact, I think I got a gift very Friday of my engagent. Doesn't mean I agree with this whole over the top gift giving things. But I find it offensive that everyone is split into two camps MO or chassidish/yeshivish. Its as if there are no shades of grey.

I think that plenty of Chassidish people have opined that its not necessary or even desirable to ask for tzedaka to purchase expensive jewelry as a Pesach gift.

Plenty of Chassidish people have suggested that less expensive gifts such as a siddur would be acceptable, and likely welcome.

I seriously doubt that Ms. "Korban" (as if the kallah is being placed on an altar and burnt alive if she doesn't get an expensive pair of earrings for Pesach) represents most Chassidim.

amother

Vermilion

Thu, Apr 02 2015, 9:41 am

you need to give (in my litvish/non heimish/ny community) a bracelet at l'chaim, diamond ring and some kind of yichud present. my in laws who gave me a fake bracelet, spent 150 dollars on my earrings. I know because I exchanged them later for linen. Lol cant say it felt too great to be the recipient of such cheapness. I also got a leichter only. after my mother insisted that ut was standard to get. My mil wasnt happy, but I agree with my mother. in my circles it is unheard of not to give one. Also vort flowers and flowers for shabbos kallah (under 75 dollars). sheitel I was promised but my mil backed out. I was disappointed only because it was verbally said by lchaim and then when followed up acted like it wasnt but me and my parents understood. not everyone wants to sink themselves in debt. I got a less expensive one and after my wedding I spent 500 dollars of my own money (was working) to get a fall. I never got a watch (husband bought me one after the birth of our baby using our wedding money which was absolutely worth it),never got a necklace or siddur/machzorim. my in laws are simple people and I love them. and I am pretty "flatbushy" I did not judge them for not giving me everything in the book or being cheap (fake bracelet!!!! but they are chapless like that) because they fear debt and would never just swipe credit cards to keep up with Joneses. thats life and I had to deal. whatever we couldnt GET I make do without. BH WE MAKE DO and we had no support either besides for a few 100 over the course of first two years wehn Dh didnt have a job yet. (I was working)

Barbara

Thu, Apr 02 2015, 9:44 am

amother wrote:

[nasty comment removed]

allthingsblue

Thu, Apr 02 2015, 9:47 am

amother wrote:

I seriously take issue with the bolded. First of all, you want to start married life with your husband on the right foot. That means your parents and in laws shouldn't needlessly argue over silly things, because that just places stress on the kids, and it can also cause your in laws to dislike you. That's first of all.
Second, who CARES what the "standard" is? You want to make your future in laws go into debt just so you can get what's "standard"? And your mother had to insist on it, which means there was no sentimental value involved... I really don't get why kallahs "have" to have such-and-such.
Way to start off your relationship with your new in laws!

mummiedearest

Thu, Apr 02 2015, 9:52 am

op, please check with the mesader kiddushin. the yichud room present is supposed to be from the chosson to the kallah as a gesture to welcome her to HIS home. it is absolutely NOT your responsibility. and ftr, it doesn't have to be jewelry. really.

I do think you need to stand up for yourself. be honest about what you can afford, and let your dil know that while you can't afford all the jewelry you wish you could give her, you look forward to years of gift-giving at appropriate times.

imasoftov

Thu, Apr 02 2015, 9:53 am

imasoftov wrote:

It doesn't mean poor, but neither does it mean "GIMME!"

I also thought of Tehillim 128:2

יְגִיעַ כַּפֶּיךָ כִּי תֹאכֵל אַשְׁרֶיךָ וְטוֹב לָךְ
If you eat the toil of your hands, you are praiseworthy, and it is good for you.

Rashi there says "He who benefits from the toil of his hands inherits two worlds. In Tractate Berachoth (8a)."

All English is from http://www.chabad.org/library/.....=true