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YT gift for my sons kallah - no money!
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amother
Wine


 

Post Thu, Apr 02 2015, 10:54 am
mummiedearest wrote:
right. but his parents paid for them. so he didn't give them to you, they did. and he could afford to want to give you all the standards, because he wasn't spending his money.

when dh and I got engaged, he gave me a bracelet he bought himself. had he asked me, I would have told him not to get me one. I'm not into bling. I didn't even want a ring, but my mother worked on me for years: "if it's offered, you'll accept it." I went with him to pick out a ring, I picked out a tiny ring which was beautiful. he insisted on getting something more standard. I found something I liked, but I refused to wear it unless I was with him. I had no interest in walking around with that much money on one finger. beyond those gifts, we sat down and went through the list of "common" engagement gifts. we both pretty much had what we needed. my father bought him his tallis (my dad wanted to, and insisted on buying an extra one for shabbos), and I bought him cufflinks. he had a watch, a shas, a kiddush cup, etc. I didn't want more jewelry, already had pearls, and begged my mom for her candlesticks, which are a family heirloom. she always hated the way they looked, so I asked for them and told her she should treat herself to beautiful candlesticks. we bought each other yichud room gifts (why shouldn't I give him a wedding present), neither of which was expensive. as for yom tov gifts, I showed up at his house erev shavuos with a homemade cheesecake for his parents. a few hours later, he showed up at my house with flowers. it never occurred to him to get me something for yom tov until I came to his house. I wouldn't have missed the gift had he not gotten me anything.

I would have been very upset if he insisted on giving me thousands of dollars worth of jewelry on his parents' dime. I grew up knowing that we didn't go to florida for winter vacation because we couldn't afford it. I saw my parents trying to budget on a regular basis. if my parents gave me cash to buy clothing and I went over that amount, I used my own money. as soon as I got a regular job, I paid for my own clothing and for part of the family groceries. I paid my own cell phone bill. my parents' money was not mine to spend, and I would never attempt to spend my in-laws', no matter how common the practice. my mom actually offered to support us for a year so my husband could learn, but I didn't tell my husband until later. neither of us were ok with that. he worked part-time for four months so he could go to kollel. he was lucky that his job allowed for that.

you don't spend someone else's money to make you feel good. you look inside yourself and see what is lacking and work on that. diamonds don't make you happy. you make you happy. a kallah not recognizing this is not a valid reason for the future in-laws to go into debt. marriage involves compromise, and not just with your spouse. when you get married, you have to be willing to work with your in-laws to have a peaceful relationship. demanding expensive items is detrimental to the whole future of the family, in more ways than one.

Dh borrowed money for the bracelet and had money set aside for the ring (inheritance). Leichter is customarily from the mother in law anyway and I think they ended up helping him with the earrings though that was a last minute decision--he was going to pay for them himself.

They also chose to spend way out of their means on the wedding. I booked a takana hall but they weren't interested in adhering to takanos which ended up costing them several thousand dollars more so they could have something important to them (and dh) that I didn't care about. I can't spend their money obviously but they chose debt for what's important to them and quite frankly in such a situation I'd think it only fair to do the same for whats important to the other side (in their case they lucked out and I didn't want them going in debt over me...I begged to not have flowers at my wedding because I REALLY didn't care and thought it a collosal waste of money).
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Jeanette




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 02 2015, 10:56 am
amother wrote:
you need to give (in my litvish/non heimish/ny community) a bracelet at l'chaim, diamond ring and some kind of yichud present. my in laws who gave me a fake bracelet, spent 150 dollars on my earrings. I know because I exchanged them later for linen. Lol cant say it felt too great to be the recipient of such cheapness. I also got a leichter only. after my mother insisted that ut was standard to get. My mil wasnt happy, but I agree with my mother. in my circles it is unheard of not to give one. Also vort flowers and flowers for shabbos kallah (under 75 dollars). sheitel I was promised but my mil backed out. I was disappointed only because it was verbally said by lchaim and then when followed up acted like it wasnt but me and my parents understood. not everyone wants to sink themselves in debt. I got a less expensive one and after my wedding I spent 500 dollars of my own money (was working) to get a fall. I never got a watch (husband bought me one after the birth of our baby using our wedding money which was absolutely worth it),never got a necklace or siddur/machzorim. my in laws are simple people and I love them. and I am pretty "flatbushy" I did not judge them for not giving me everything in the book or being cheap (fake bracelet!!!! but they are chapless like that) because they fear debt and would never just swipe credit cards to keep up with Joneses. thats life and I had to deal. whatever we couldnt GET I make do without. BH WE MAKE DO and we had no support either besides for a few 100 over the course of first two years wehn Dh didnt have a job yet. (I was working)


You sound like the most mature and mentchlich poster on this thread yet.

You didn't get what everyone else did, you were disappointed and honest enough to admit it, but you learned to deal. You are not harboring resentment years later.

May Hashem bless you with all material and spiritual blessings.
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mummiedearest




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 02 2015, 10:58 am
amother wrote:
Dh borrowed money for the bracelet and had money set aside for the ring (inheritance). Leichter is customarily from the mother in law anyway and I think they ended up helping him with the earrings though that was a last minute decision--he was going to pay for them himself.

They also chose to spend way out of their means on the wedding. I booked a takana hall but they weren't interested in adhering to takanos which ended up costing them several thousand dollars more so they could have something important to them (and dh) that I didn't care about. I can't spend their money obviously but they chose debt for what's important to them and quite frankly in such a situation I'd think it only fair to do the same for whats important to the other side (in their case they lucked out and I didn't want them going in debt over me...I begged to not have flowers at my wedding because I REALLY didn't care and thought it a collosal waste of money).


them making a bad decision does not give you the right to add to it. as for the leichter coming from the mil, I don't think that's quite as standard as you think. I've seen them come from the mother of the bride, from the grandmother-in-law, from the groom, from the siblings... it would have been fine to put them on a wedding registry.
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Barbara




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 02 2015, 11:16 am
Jeanette wrote:
You sound like the most mature and mentchlich poster on this thread yet.

You didn't get what everyone else did, you were disappointed and honest enough to admit it, but you learned to deal. You are not harboring resentment years later.

May Hashem bless you with all material and spiritual blessings.


Really? She scoffed at the "cheapness" of her in-laws "only" spending $150 on a pair of earrings for her. That's not what I called "mentchlich."
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water_bear88




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 02 2015, 11:27 am
mummiedearest wrote:
them making a bad decision does not give you the right to add to it. as for the leichter coming from the mil, I don't think that's quite as standard as you think. I've seen them come from the mother of the bride, from the grandmother-in-law, from the groom, from the siblings... it would have been fine to put them on a wedding registry.


Regarding the leichter- I'd guess it also depends on minhagim as to when girls start lighting. My grandmother bought me candlesticks for my bat mitzvah.
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amother
Ecru


 

Post Thu, Apr 02 2015, 11:29 am
I didn't read through everything, but I personally believe that the whole gift giving situation that we do in our communities is terrible and really needs to be stopped. It causes so much stress and many times fights. People have too many expectations about it. Give the girl a ring and that's it. Any other gifts should be given between the couple themselves and from the heart. The gift giving has become like a business transaction and it isn't a nice thing.
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amother
Coral


 

Post Thu, Apr 02 2015, 11:31 am
Barbara wrote:
You are a vile and disgusting human being.


Of course. Calling chassidish kallahs harlots gets likes. Where is your defense of those virgins?

As I stated, I said this to show how vulgar and disgusting what is being said about chossids and how posters would go crazy that it was said about MO.

Congratulations you played right into it. You have displayed you bias right on cue.
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amother
Ecru


 

Post Thu, Apr 02 2015, 11:36 am
It's not like we don't have enough to do trying plan a wedding, but we have to worry about buying silly gifts throughout the whole engagement. I don't understand why Jews make everything so stressful.
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Barbara




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 02 2015, 11:41 am
amother wrote:
Of course. Calling chassidish kallahs harlots gets likes. Where is your defense of those virgins?

As I stated, I said this to show how vulgar and disgusting what is being said about chossids and how posters would go crazy that it was said about MO.

Congratulations you played right into it. You have displayed you bias right on cue.


First off, I didn't "like" any of those comparisons. Nevertheless, the point wasn't that they were actually whores; rather, that marrying in return for gifts, rather than for the value of marriage, can be analogized to selling oneself for money.

You're not making an analogy. You're just being vile and disgusting, and doing it as imamother. The comment stands. You are a disgusting human being.
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Bruria




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 02 2015, 11:52 am
Barbara you are awesome!!!
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amother
Coral


 

Post Thu, Apr 02 2015, 11:56 am
Happy18 wrote:
shock shock Do you honestly believe what you wrote about MO girls???? If so you are a in serious need of deprogramming.

All married ladies DO NOT wear a certain type of jewelry. It is not required by halacha. It has nothing to do with setting up a household. Setting up a house hold involves beds (not a bedroom set but beds), a few dishes, pots and pans, linenes and toilet paper. The dishes and pots and pans don't even have to be a full set to start with. Jewelry has nothing to do with setting up a household. Additionally, we have had countless people on this site say how they were a reluctant kallah.


Of course I don't believe that of MO girls. I was showing how wrong it is to call chassidish kallahs harlots.

I agree all married women don't wear a certain type of jewelry, however, almost all young married girls receive the same set of jewelry in the circles we are discussing.

I was a reluctant kallah myself so I know there are although I never met one IRL. I married at a ridiculously late age because I had no interest in setting up my own home unlike most girls. I turned down the kallah jewelry which was incomprehensible to my peers. I didn't like the jewelry.

As I have stated several times already on this thread, I am not supporting the system, but simply stating reality.

The reality is a young kallah is not the place to start. Her mother and sister are obviously trying to spare her the hurt. She doesn't have the maturity and wisdom to realize the whole system she was brought up in is not acceptable to her new mil. I support accepting tzedukah for this.
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amother
Coral


 

Post Thu, Apr 02 2015, 12:04 pm
Barbara wrote:
First off, I didn't "like" any of those comparisons. Nevertheless, the point wasn't that they were actually whores; rather, that marrying in return for gifts, rather than for the value of marriage, can be analogized to selling oneself for money.

You're not making an analogy. You're just being vile and disgusting, and doing it as imamother. The comment stands. You are a disgusting human being.


Your post is illogical and intellectually dishonest. You change things and misdirect in order to make your point.

Frankly, since I gave out too many personal details, I can't come out and say under my SN what I think of you. Suffice it to say, I find the things you continually say about chossids vile and disgusting. I have reported them to Yael but it appears open season on imamother against chossids has been extended.
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Jeanette




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 02 2015, 12:04 pm
Barbara wrote:
Really? She scoffed at the "cheapness" of her in-laws "only" spending $150 on a pair of earrings for her. That's not what I called "mentchlich."


There are different types of people in this world. Some people are not into jewelry at all. Others are into jewelry but are able to overcome the hurt and shame and disappointment at not getting what they want and move on in life.

This is where cultural sensitivity comes into play. Sure, we could just condemn everyone for having such gashmiyus'dike tastes to begin with. Or we could accept that due to reasons of taste or culture or upbringing, they do have such desires, but it's what you do with them that matters. I respect anyone who grew up in this culture, knows what it means to desire nice jewelry, sees everyone else getting it, but still finds it in them to love and respect her in-laws despite not getting what she was raised to believe she deserved.

Would it be better not to be raised with these expectations to begin with? Sure. But this is where they're at. You've got to start somewhere.
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