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How to interpret this gesture?
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amother
Cerulean


 

Post Tue, Mar 31 2015, 11:54 am
I'm an intern in a mental health clinic I've been here almost 2 years. Most of my fellow interns are young grad students and I'm almost 30. A few interns are also here for a 2nd year. One ofthem is a charismatic Hispanic guy who is friendly and always greets me and asks me how I'm doing. He knows I'm married, Jewish and that I just had a baby. I dress business casual so its always tznius and appropriate. Any way the other day I was in my supervisors office waiting to ask a question and this guy came by on my left side and kind of reached over to my right shoulder and kind of tickle-pinched it. Is this normal or was that trying to be flirtatious?
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amother
Chartreuse


 

Post Tue, Mar 31 2015, 12:35 pm
I'm a BT so I've had experience with non-Jewish friends who are guys... I wouldn't read into this too much. Sounds like he's just trying to be friendly.

That said, just make sure you keep your boundaries (as I'm sure you already do)!
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MagentaYenta




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 31 2015, 12:49 pm
It's certainly not professional or appropriate in the workplace, regardless of anyones religion.
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greenfire




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 31 2015, 12:49 pm
nobody could possibly interpret what we weren't there to see/feel/hear for ourselves ...

and wonder if it would have been a different thought process if the hispanic guy were say jewish ... would you know if he were flirtatious
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amother
Chartreuse


 

Post Tue, Mar 31 2015, 12:51 pm
greenfire wrote:
nobody could possibly interpret what we weren't there to see/feel/hear for ourselves ...

and wonder if it would have been a different thought process if the hispanic guy were say jewish ... would you know if he were flirtatious


I wouldn't think so. Unless he was frum at least on some level and understanding that there's something called shomer negiah/
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Scrabble123




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 31 2015, 12:52 pm
I would disregard it and move forward with my work.
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MagentaYenta




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 31 2015, 1:27 pm
Unwanted touch is unwanted touch. Let me put it this way, I've been a supervisor in the public sector and female and male employees have come to me regarding unwanted touching. I've had to speak to the toucher privately and counsel them on inappropriate workplace touching. Regardless of religious beliefs, individuals have the right to establish personal physical boundaries. Some folks don't think so deeply and may be just acting impulsively, say giving a hug to someone who just got good news or a promotion. If I counseled an employee about touch and they do it again, as a supervisor I'm concerned about harassment.

For instance I have a friend who has just announced she's expecting, I would be considerate of her personal space and desires by saying 'That's great news can I give you a hug?'. My family hugs, kisses and touches, we've all learned to educate ourselves when it comes to individuals in the workplace or folks who are not family.
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greenfire




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 31 2015, 1:32 pm
amother wrote:
I wouldn't think so. Unless he was frum at least on some level and understanding that there's something called shomer negiah/


my point being that his race need not be mentioned ...
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Fox




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 31 2015, 3:05 pm
I don't think mentioning his ethnic background was as much a racial observation as a cultural one. Some cultures are more touchy-feely than others, and in a melting pot society, we sometimes have to do a "culture check" in order to know how to interpret something.

Of course, "Hispanic" isn't very specific and covers a lot of territory, no pun intended.

If this co-worker is otherwise appropriate, I would ignore it. Sometimes people do something impulsively that they don't realize is borderline inappropriate; sometimes they do something intended to be funny that isn't. Unless the action is egregious or repeated, it's probably not worth addressing.

It's also worth remembering that all of *us* come from backgrounds, too, and we may occasionally do things that other cultures would find inappropriate. It's a two-way street.
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cbsp




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 31 2015, 3:06 pm
greenfire wrote:
my point being that his race need not be mentioned ...


Hispanic is not a race. It could be she was giving the info to provide context of culture.
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cbsp




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 31 2015, 3:08 pm
Sorry, Fox, I see we cross posted. Silly me for taking care of my kid before hitting submit Very Happy
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sequoia




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 31 2015, 3:20 pm
Me: NN is half Jewish, half Italian.
Friend: So does he talk with his hands or does he talk with his hands?
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Fox




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 31 2015, 3:26 pm
sequoia wrote:
Me: NN is half Jewish, half Italian.
Friend: So does he talk with his hands or does he talk with his hands?


Both, but he has a promising career as a scarecrow!
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greenfire




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 31 2015, 5:09 pm
ethnicity ... big difference

I don't think it matters because it has nothing to do with why he touched her ...
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amother
Turquoise


 

Post Tue, Mar 31 2015, 5:25 pm
greenfire wrote:
ethnicity ... big difference

I don't think it matters because it has nothing to do with why he touched her ...


It actually might. When I was in school for social work, we had an exercise where the class was divided in two and put in separate rooms. Each half was given its own rules of social conduct. The half I was in was supposed to represent several cultures including Latino; men were expected to open a conversation with a women with a simple touch such as a hand on a shoulder.

My frum friends and I spent the whole time running away from the males in the class whenever they approached.
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causemommysaid




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 31 2015, 8:41 pm
I wouldn't read into it. I think I know exactly what kind of "tickle pinch" you are referring to and I doubt it had any zxual or flirtatious undertones.

I had classmates in college who were African and they sometimes did the same thing. I think its considered a friendly way to greet someone when you are running by but have no time to stop and chat.
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iluvy




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 31 2015, 9:09 pm
Bottom line is, you have a right not to be touched if you don't want to, especially in a professional environment. People are starting to be more aware of this in social settings as well -- see the backlash against Joe Biden, for example.

It doesn't matter if it's cultural, if he's just being friendly and not flirtatious -- you just don't want to be touched, and you can and should feel comfortable enforcing that boundary.
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cbsp




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 31 2015, 9:35 pm
iluvy wrote:
Bottom line is, you have a right not to be touched if you don't want to, especially in a professional environment. People are starting to be more aware of this in social settings as well -- see the backlash against Joe Biden, for example.

It doesn't matter if it's cultural, if he's just being friendly and not flirtatious -- you just don't want to be touched, and you can and should feel comfortable enforcing that boundary.


(Backlash against VP Biden? When?)

True, a person can and should enforce that boundary. But if the touch was cultural then you can approach it from that angle (hey, I noticed in your culture it's cool to tap on the shoulder. My culture: not so much) rather than report it as creepy behavior to the powers that be. My understanding from the OP was she wanted clarity as to whether it could be innocent (because culturally that would be acceptable to that person) or unprofessional (in which case you go up the chain of command to deal with it professionally).
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iluvy




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 31 2015, 9:52 pm
Joe Biden, We Need to Talk About the Way You Touch Women

I agree that this is not an HR thing, this is a friendly comment thing.
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amother
Forestgreen


 

Post Tue, Mar 31 2015, 10:32 pm
I work in a work environment with no other frum people. My co-workers all know that I am a religious Jew. However, there was one guy who always found a reason to talk to me (he works in a different department but always managed to find his way to mine), it started with talking, then a light touch on the hand, he even went so far as to try to give me a hug. (He would also tell me when I was pregnant that I needed to tell my husband to leave me alone!) That was where I drew the line. I went to HR and complained. He stopped all contact after that. I think you need to weigh this gesture against his other behavior, or put it into context for yourself. Does he do this often? I think boundaries are very important. They can be difficult to establish because you don't want to make a big deal out of nothing. Keep an eye on things and if you need to go to HR, go.
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