Don't know what to do anymore!

amother

Periwinkle

Mon, Apr 06 2015, 10:51 pm

Hi everyone, I'm completely at my wits end! I have a 14 year old son that has been extremely difficult ever since he was born. We've been to therapists out the wazoo, nobody has given him a label or a diagnosis, just that he's a little bit of odd, adhd, manic depressive...he can go from a high, acting silly and hyper because of some shtus then he can turn on a dime because someone said something or looked at him...he is extremely chutzpahdik, doesn't really make friends, he screams and throws things, he hits and kicks his siblings...we have tried so many things and I don't know what to do anymore! I feel like sending him away so that the rest of my family could have a decent lifestyle, he has no varemkeit for mitzvos, daavening, he doesn't do that well in yeshiva ( he actually hates it there but that's a whole other rant on our yeshiva system) He's 14 and it's just getting worse, I don't know what to do, go to another therapist? Does he need meds? I hope someone has some ideas, because I don't see this ending well, I can't see him being successful in yeshiva, or having a successful marriage ...someone please help!

seeker

Mon, Apr 06 2015, 11:13 pm

It's odd that you've been to many professionals and nobody offered a diagnosis. I've heard plenty of wrong or too-hasty diagnoses but rare for someone with clear difficulties to have none. What does it even mean "a little bit" ODD/ADHD/etc? My feeling is that the people you've been looking to for help are not very professional, or there's missing information here. Go to a real, solid, reputable psychiatrist and get a diagnosis and some suggestions to start with. Do a search for previous threads about psychiatrists, there have been some recommendations

amother

Smokey

Mon, Apr 06 2015, 11:17 pm

My son is a few years younger but nearly identical to the OP. We've also been to many professionals and no one has a concrete diagnosis. They all just say he's in a gray area. I really think he's wired differently than other people. We do a lot to address each issue but there's just so much that life is very difficult on a daily basis.

When I think of the future I'm paralyzed with fear. Some of my other kids are more difficult but all within the range of what I consider normal. But this one - sigh....

amother

Periwinkle

Mon, Apr 06 2015, 11:28 pm

amother wrote:

That's it! Exactly that! Daily living, basics like bathing or telling him his lips are dry and he should put on Vaseline become world war three! And I can't give every minute of the day for him, I have other kids who need my attention...I don't even know to whom to take him! I don't know where to turn anymore!

amother

Violet

Mon, Apr 06 2015, 11:31 pm

Here's my situation:

My son was difficult from the day he was born, he is my oldest, so I had no clue how unusual the situation was until I had more kids. He was totally defiant and impossible to reason with at any time. He had a very hard time transitioning to and from any activity. He made everything difficult and everyone around him miserable. He had difficulty making friends and getting along with his peers. He routinely got violent and damaged many items and furniture in our home.
When he was 10 we found the only therapy that helped him at all was very intense sensory integration, reflex therapy and various holistic therapies. He improved a lot, but as he became a teenager, problems surfaced again and he refused therapy. We tried bribes, incentives etc. to no avail.
Amazingly, he stayed in school for High school and then quit.
He is 21 now, not frum at all. He moved out and lives with some guys in a basement. When he's home, he does try to respect somewhat. He is much calmer and is talking about going to college next year. He does various jobs to barely support himself.
I's very sad for me to see the kid who we spent so much time, effort, money and energy on be the way he is.
We never medicated him, it never seemed like what he needed. I never pushed any Dr's to consider meds. so I'm wondering if they would have had I introduced the idea.

I'm telling my story to tell you that ou can't give up, you need to push very hard to find him a solution.

busymother

Mon, Apr 06 2015, 11:38 pm

Similar situation here with my 12 year old. Just went to a nutritionist, started her on vitamins and healthier eating and I see a world of a difference. If you want I can pm her info. Other things we tried were a behavior pediatrician, behavior therapy (boy, that totally flopped but we got the idea and are working on charts) starting to notice that the hardest thing to do-loving her- is really the best thing. Do you have a relative you can send him to for a few days so you can recharge and give other kids attention? Now I'll get off my high horse and say it is just so so so hard!! We're actually looking to move cities now just for the schooling... Hatzlacha!!

amother

Maroon

Tue, Apr 07 2015, 2:39 am

This sounds like my 10 year old son. We were told by a therapist that it's ADHD and he's been on medication since the summer but deep down I know this isn't ADHD. He can concentrate in school and on tasks, almost obsessively. And he's not at all scatterbrained. He's actually quite gifted and does well in school except when there's an issue with a classmate or a Rebbi.

However, if anyone so much as looks at him the wrong way, comes into his space, chews loudly, touches his stuff, or if I, heaven forbid, don't drop everything I'm doing to run and give him XYZ NOW, or anything equally catastrophic, it's a meltdown that will go on for hours with no logic, rhyme or reason. I too cannot begin to list the broken household items from some of his tantrums, all of which have begun over, quite literally, nothing. We have no idea what to do. I love him, I really do. But I also feel like he's ruining my life and the lives of his siblings. No day can just run smoothly. No outting can just be happy and stress free. We all have to tiptoe around him all the time. The only thing that will eventually calm his during his meltdowns is if I sit and talk to him calmly. For hours. I don't have time. If a meltdown is particularly bad against one of his siblings, I've had to take the kids out of the house for their own safety. He can also be a sweetheart. When he wants to be.

My husband was raised very strictly. You didn't get up from the table until everyone was down. If you didn't sit nicely, you don't eat. He believes this is the way to raise children and won't budge. Needless to say, this approach is disastrous for this particular child. We're going to a family therapist together who can help us with parenting. Hopefully she will be able to get through to him that what worked for him in his home isn't this best for our home.

The medication has helped I think. There are great days and horrific days. The side effects aren't great either. He was seeing someone who lives quite a distance away and he threw up all over the bus and is refusing to go back. I spoke with a new therapist who's more local and hopefully they will be starting after Pesach.

I'm relieved that other parents seem to have children just like this without a real diagnoses. I often feel sad and depressed wondering, "What's wrong with my kid?" but I see it's not so rare. I was just telling my husband yesterday that the more I read about ADHD the more I'm convinced this isn't what this is. He can play chess for hours. He can build legos for hours. He's actually my most responsible child. How can that be ADHD?

chani8

Tue, Apr 07 2015, 3:22 am

Please read Dr Amen's book on Healing ADHD. His book will give you the clarity you need on meds.

My oldest was 14 when I finally couldn't take it anymore and started herbal treatment for the whole family. Dr Amen's book really helped me. Please read the book.

Why read a book on ADHD if your child can concentrate for hours? Because you'll see that it isn't as simple as that. Sometimes ADHD is more about mood issues than concentration. It can be more about anxiety or OCD. It can be about anger or low frustration tolerance. As far as concentration, some people can concentrate for hours when left alone, but in a group or outside the home, cannot concentrate at all. So, it's complicated. Read the book!

chani8

Tue, Apr 07 2015, 3:29 am

I think therapy is something to think about, too.

Why we don't send our kids out for therapy more easily, I dont know. Perhaps we are afraid by it. My problem is not trusting the therapist's qualifications. Worried they'll do more damage than good.

But all that fear does is keep the child isolated and hinders the hishtadlus aspect of potentially getting the child the help s/he needs.

I do know that my teens got a lot out of cognitive therapy. Learning that they have control over their feelings and behaviors. Life changing stuff, imo. I wish there was a simpler version of the book, The Feeling Good Book by Dr Burns. Perhaps I'll google about it. If not, then my DD may be the one who writes the book one day.

busymother

Tue, Apr 07 2015, 9:11 am

Chani8 my thoughts exactly! My dd has been seeing someone in school for a year and a half till she confided in me that it's doing more harm than good! It's so hard to find someone you trust and that will get along with the child!! Bh I think we may have just found someone... Just davening it will work! I also found it helpful when I signed up myself and other kids for therapy- they all need the extra boost!
Btw we just got my dd kinetic sand and a container to play it in and it does wonders when she's in a bad mood!

amother

Periwinkle

Tue, Apr 07 2015, 9:16 am

Hi, op here, it's nice to see I'm not alone. In reply to some posters, my husband has more patience for him than me, but he also gets pushed to the edge, my son is just as chutzpahdik to him, doesn't do normal father son things, like sing zemiros, he always waits for the last min to get ready and my dh ends up waiting for my son when they go to shul, my ds has made this into an art form, I can't even explain how he does it, you would have to see it and then it would be unbelievable. There hasn't been a shabbos, yom Tov, chol hamoed outing...that we've had peaceful, enjoyable...there's always something bothering him, making him miserable, making everyone miserable...it all revolves around him and his feelings.
As for specialized schooling, he doesn't need that, he just needs a decent yeshiva that has a curriculum that lets all boys shine, a staff that actually cares about the kids and some excitement, unfortunately we don't have such options here, here there are only "top" yeshivas that learn from 7:45 am to 8:45 pm and if you don't excel at learning you're a loser, or there are yeshivas for boys who don't learn so well, but none of them offer exciting trips, or activities or other thIngs boys can do and learn and excel at. Something that can make him feel good about himself.
And as for therapy, I can't take him because he shuts down, sulks the entire time until he can leave.
Some therapists have told us to be strict, some have told us to ignore his behavior, I don't know which way to deal with him anymore, I just know the situation is unbearable

amother

Chartreuse

Tue, Apr 07 2015, 12:55 pm

amother wrote:

The person who mentioned loving your child as being the hardest thing. This makes me cry. It is so very hard to love my son sometimes....and that just makes me feel like I;m to blame. I don't act like I love him or like him sometimes.

Hugs to anyone facing these challenges....it's painful and exhausting.

This upsets me. We don't have to love our kids if they are abusive or toxic or mean to us and others. We don't have to love them or like them at all, just because we gave birth to them. Just like we aren't expected to love an abusive spouse because once upon a time we did, same way we don't have to love children who make us miserable. Society doesn't understand that and sends us on guilt trips. And there's no reason for it.

My son is very similar to yours- blows up, constantly negative, tells me to shut up, controls himself only when I threaten removing electronics, etc. I don't like him and don't love him and don't feel guilty about it. I have to do the best job I can as a parent and show affection and impose discipline and do my best to help him grow into a mentch, but when he is abusive towards me or my other children- I absolutely do not love him. And I've realized that this is okay and that feeling guilty about this will only make me insane.

granolamom

Tue, Apr 07 2015, 3:52 pm

I have a child who is difficult to love, similar to lots of the kids described here.

I've tried to define love before accusing myself of not loving my child, and before allowing myself to give up on loving my child. For now, I define it as seeing the neshama within, to recognize the godliness inherent in this person. And I do think we should try to 'love' each person in that way, including ourselves, Nd most importantly, these types of kids. If *we* cannot see anything precious or good inside them, they will have a hard time finding it within themselves. If nothing else, I think that's my job. It's not easy, but that's what I'm aiming for.

As for the rest of it, well we have to do our work. The results are not up to us. I try not to feel depressed by how little I have to show for all of my efforts, and it is helpful to know that we are not alone.