Stealing cleaning help from someone else

amother

Natural

Tue, Apr 07 2015, 10:09 pm

I am so upset. I've had a cleaning woman for many months (close to a year). I have her on Thursdays and had asked her to save Tuesday for me for the 6 weeks before pesach. On Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays she works for someone else. She gave away Tuesdays to the other woman. I was upset and moved on.

The Thursday before pesach -- bedikas chometz -- she didn't show up. I was furious cuz I have no doubt that she went to the other woman. You know what, I'm angry at her but I'm even more angry at the frum woman (and yes I know from my cleaning woman who she has been working by) who probably offered her more for that day. I was really really counting on that help and instead went into Yom Tov so much more stressed out than needed to be.

Today I decided to text the cleaning woman to confirm that she is coming this Thursday. Guess what. Of course she said that she can't this week (erev yom tov) but can come next week.

I just want to say that this other woman has really taken a large piece of my simchas yom Tov. I really feel that whatever mitzvah she had by preparing for pesach, she practically lost by ruining my pesach. And yes, I know this is not the end of the world. There are a lot bigger tragedies out there. But, I have not been feeling well and getting ready for pesach and for second days yom Tov has been especially challenging because of this "other woman."

I guess I'm venting here in the hope that the "other woman" and any other woman that reads this, thinks twice before doing it again. Don't only think about yourself. Care about another fellow yid whose life you are making much more difficult because of your actions.

amother

Natural

Tue, Apr 07 2015, 10:25 pm

justcallmeima wrote:

The cleaning lady makes her own choices of where to work.

Really? I couldn't figure that out! What a typical response.

I expect most cleaning women to go where the money is. So if someone is offering more...

I do expect a woman who is shomer Torah u'mitzvos -- which includes btw caring about your fellow Jew-- to think when she is bribing her cleaning woman how it might impact the other frum family.

amother

Natural

Tue, Apr 07 2015, 10:29 pm

oliveoil wrote:

You don't own your cleaning help, so no one can "steal" her from you. She is not an item and she is not property.

She gets to work for whoever she chooses. Wouldn't you go where there's more money? I would. If you need her so desperately, offer to pay her more.

No. I don't own her and never meant to imply that. Of course she can choose to work where she wants. And yes I would expect her and most working people to go for more money. That is exactly why I don't think it's right for a frum person to offer more, which is automatically taking her away from someone else.

Even if I can offer more money for the day, I can not compete with the woman she works for three times a week.

Emotional

Tue, Apr 07 2015, 10:31 pm

oliveoil wrote:

Please don't sidestep the issue. Of course the cleaning woman can work where she pleases. But if the other woman did indeed bribe her away, knowing very well that it is erev Pesach for OP as well, then this other woman is simply not a mentsch.

oliveoil

Tue, Apr 07 2015, 10:34 pm

Emotional wrote:

I'm not sidestepping the issue. It disgusts me when people act like they own their cleaning help, and think everyone should band together to pay them the same rate. If you were the employee, wouldn't you want the opportunity for increased pay?

debsey

Tue, Apr 07 2015, 10:37 pm

amother wrote:

Why not call the other woman?

This has happened to me before. I fired the cleaning lady (who showed up two days after pesach saying she's "all better now.") I can't have someone I can't trust working for me!

As the other posters said, it's a free market, but you are free to fire her.

It is also true that the other lady acted wrongly - and you should call her and point this out. It may be that SHE is not the person who did this and you are holding a grudge against the wrong person. I've seen people approach cleaning ladies who are waiting for their rides home! So it's possible that someone else entirely hired her.

Emotional

Tue, Apr 07 2015, 10:40 pm

oliveoil wrote:

Of course I would. I'm human. But in the general working world, aren't you supposed to give your boss 2 weeks' notice before leaving for a job with a higher salary? Or do you just not show up one day?
I know cleaning ladies are not bound by such "professional" rules. Such is life. It's not that the cleaning lady did anything terribly wrong here, it's the lady who bribed her away leaving someone else stranded.

debsey

Tue, Apr 07 2015, 10:44 pm

Emotional wrote:

Turning this around slightly
Suppose you own a sheitel salon. You train in your (frum, female) assistants. A month before Pesach, someone poaches them away with unrealistically high wages just for the crunch time.
Isn't that person acting wrongly? The assistants should be loyal, but the poacher is not acting ethically.
It's not about owning your cleaning help. OP didn't say that she has a pact with people to pay this lady less. It's about inflating a wage temporarily for a "crunch season" KNOWING you are taking away someone else's valuable employee, perhaps that she has invested time in training in.
It's not like the cleaning lady went to OP and said - I want extra money bec before your holiday you make me work harder, and then OP said - No, and she went and looked for another job.
But OP - I still maintain - it could be a random person who approached her and NOT the lady you think it is.

amother

Natural

Tue, Apr 07 2015, 10:46 pm

amother wrote:

Im surprised at the comments. I'm wroth you OP in this one, unless the other lady didn't know she works for a frum person (highly unlikely )

Can you tell her if she doesn't come this Thursday you'll have to find someone else because it's already 2 times that you really really needed her and she wasn't available?

Good luck

Thanks for the support. And yes, I told her I need someone I can depend on...but again I can't compete against someone for whom she works three times a week. She is probably afraid of losing that other job.

rosebunch

Tue, Apr 07 2015, 10:46 pm

I totally agree, op. Certainly there is a free market out there, but that's not what op is trying to bring out. Stealing someone's cleaning help erev yom tov is totally unacceptable, especially if op kept her all throughout the year on those days.
I feel for you and can totally relate. I keep my cleaning lady all year the same days, same amount of hours, so I expect to have her on those days and those hours before yom tov too. Turns Out that another woman forced her to cut on my hours and come to her earlier. This is really frustrating and I consider it chutzpah of the other woman. Where is she all year when I'm paying my cleaning help for all these hours so I can surely deserve to benefit before a yom tov too??
I understand that it can be overwhelming to bring in a yom tov, but make sure you aren't making it easier on yourself on somebody else's account.

amother

Natural

Tue, Apr 07 2015, 10:49 pm

debsey wrote:

Thank you Debsey for your post.

The reason I believe it's the other woman is because the week before she told me that that (really large) house still has a lot of work and the she was also doing the daughters house/apartment.

amother

Jade

Tue, Apr 07 2015, 11:22 pm

I used to be upset when people offered more money, which raised prices for the rest of us who couldn't afford it.

This erev pesach I had an experience which showed me that it wasn't always so simple.

I asked my regular cleaning lady if she is available to help my sister. She told me she isn't but she can send her friend.

The next morning she texts that her friend wants $$ (more than the going rate). I replied that my sister can't pay so much.

I report back to my sister and she says I don't care how much, I'm desperate. So I call the cleaning lady again, and she says for $$ I'll go to her myself!!

And I'm left Scratching Head

.

So they make up stories to get a raise?

Is my sister the villain for hiring a woman who claims to be available at a certain time?

I'm still puzzling over the ethics here.

amother

Pumpkin

Tue, Apr 07 2015, 11:24 pm

oliveoil wrote:

I am quite surprised at your attitude. When you keep a cleaning woman for set hours per week, at a set price, for almost a year, you do not have to "offer to pay her more" so that she should keep her commitment to you on an Erev Pesach. I know of cleaning women that raised their rates 2-3 weeks before Pesach from $10 to $20 per hour, because of people with your attitude planting such thoughts in their minds. OP has every right to feel betrayed and frustrated. And I can well understand how it impacted her simchas Yom Tov.