Home
Log in / Sign Up
    Private Messages   Advanced Search   Rules   New User Guide   FAQ   Advertise   Contact Us  
Forum -> Household Management -> Cleaning & Laundry
Stealing cleaning help from someone else
Previous  1  2  3  Next



Post new topic   Reply to topic View latest: 24h 48h 72h

debsey




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 07 2015, 11:39 pm
amother wrote:
I am quite surprised at your attitude. When you keep a cleaning woman for set hours per week, at a set price, for almost a year, you do not have to "offer to pay her more" so that she should keep her commitment to you on an Erev Pesach. I know of cleaning women that raised their rates 2-3 weeks before Pesach from $10 to $20 per hour, because of people with your attitude planting such thoughts in their minds. OP has every right to feel betrayed and frustrated. And I can well understand how it impacted her simchas Yom Tov.

I totally agree. The original employer offers the security of a set job and hours. She deserves some loyalty. It is a free market, but there's also this thing called ethics. Both the "other employer" and the cleaning lady should have those ethics, ideally.
Back to top

acccdac




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 07 2015, 11:39 pm
I'm commenting because I have stollen cleaning help. It was not Yom tov time, I did not call the other woman but I told the cleaning help what I needed (more hours) and she agreed to come work for the hours I needed. I DID NOT offer more money. It happened to me twice.

The first time I started with having the help twice a week the other person twice a week. I needed everyday, and for an hour longer each day. I told this to the help and she agreed to the position. I DID NOT do this a day or week before I needed this, I did it at least a month in advance because I needed enough time to find someone else before going back to work. I don't know if she gave the other woman 1 day, week or month notice. But in my opinion that's not my business.

The second time it happened to me I hired the help full time for a 6 month stretch with the knowledge that she would train someone for me when she went back to her previous employer (I did call the previous employer to discuss this set up). After the other woman had her baby I reminded my help to give me two weeks notice so she could train someone and she said I haven't been asked back and even if I am, I want to stay with you. The other woman is kind of a relative to uses her when I don't (and on one yom tov I "give up" my help for her to work for the other lady).

I would fire my help if she became unreliable.

I know I'm a good employer and that my job is easy (mostly watching a baby and not constant cleaning since it's done on a daily basis) and I think that is what is appealing to the help

If the other woman and you are never in contact then I don't blame her. For all you know she asked the help, "are you working extra for her next week, cause if not can you come to me" the help could have lied and said you don't need (maybe the other woman thinks you are away for yom tov or that you have been cleaning and cooking since purim

I'm sorry you have to live through this. Maybe someone else's help has a few hours available and can come to you tomorrow or Thursday.
Back to top

Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 08 2015, 9:02 am
I don't know who my CL works for except me.
Not all CLs know about Pessach.
I don't give any raise.
If you know who stole her, isn't it a bit creepy to hound her for her number and call?
Back to top

Emotional




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 08 2015, 9:06 am
My cleaning lady and her chevra all know about the Jewish holiday in the spring. They look forward to it as their "busy season."
Back to top

lucymaud




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 08 2015, 9:11 am
Time to find a new cleaning lady.
Back to top

cookiecutter




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 08 2015, 9:27 am
I usually cringe when people complain about "raising the rates for everyone" and "forcing me to pay more for my cleaning lady". But this is different IMO. Day to day, people are entitled to the highest pay they can get for their work. If the market sets the rate at $15 then you shouldn't criticize your neighbor for failing to collude with you to keep pay at $13.

But in the pre-pesach rush, it's not a free market. If the cleaning woman said "I have lots of people offering me more" and OP had the opportunity to match or say "if you don't come in erev pesach don't come in on Monday" then that would be fine. But OP does not seem to have had that opportunity. She found out she wasn't going to have help when the help failed to show up.
Back to top

saw50st8




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 08 2015, 9:32 am
OP, when you fire your cleaning help, make sure to explain that the reason you are firing her is for her unreliable service during busy season. It's important for her to understand that abandoning your employer at this time is unacceptable and will result in loss of employment.
Back to top

Ema of 5




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 08 2015, 9:44 am
oliveoil wrote:
I'm not sidestepping the issue. It disgusts me when people act like they own their cleaning help, and think everyone should band together to pay them the same rate. If you were the employee, wouldn't you want the opportunity for increased pay?

She doesn't own her cleaning help. But when someone has a steady job, they are expected to come. It's not right of someone else to say "I'll pay you more than the other person to whome you normally go on this day because I need your help, even though you work for her and she needs your help too" which is essentially what one is saying when they offer to pay cleaning help more and ask them to come on a day when they have another job. Yes, the cleaning lady can choose to go wherever she wants, but a mentch would never even ask such a thing in the first place. I used to have a cleaning lady who came to me on Tuesdays and Thursday's, and worked for other people on the other days. It never would have even occurred to me to ask her to come on a different day, unless I knew that she wasn't going to one of her other jobs.
Back to top

amother
Ginger


 

Post Wed, Apr 08 2015, 9:51 am
(a bit off topic but I couldn't help myself lol)

My cleaning lady cancelled for the Sunday that I was supposed to change over m1y kitchen. To avoid that again my dh bought an Amazon Local DEAL for cleaning help from a normal company. I was able to book my day and time that I wanted (Thursday, erev bedikas chametz). The lady came, on time, did an amazing job! It cost a bit more than a typical cleaning lady but the whole experience was so PROFESSIONAL AND RELIABLE! I would definitely do it again!
Anonymous bec I discussed this with friends IRL!
Back to top

amother
Natural


 

Post Wed, Apr 08 2015, 10:00 am
saw50st8 wrote:
OP, when you fire your cleaning help, make sure to explain that the reason you are firing her is for her unreliable service during busy season. It's important for her to understand that abandoning your employer at this time is unacceptable and will result in loss of employment.


I did. I specifically told her that she didn't show up last week when I really needed her and now she is not coming again on a day that I really need her help. I told her if she doesn't come this week then I have to find someone else because I need someone I can depend on.
Back to top

amother
Natural


 

Post Wed, Apr 08 2015, 10:03 am
amother wrote:
(a bit off topic but I couldn't help myself lol)

My cleaning lady cancelled for the Sunday that I was supposed to change over m1y kitchen. To avoid that again my dh bought an Amazon Local DEAL for cleaning help from a normal company. I was able to book my day and time that I wanted (Thursday, erev bedikas chametz). The lady came, on time, did an amazing job! It cost a bit more than a typical cleaning lady but the whole experience was so PROFESSIONAL AND RELIABLE! I would definitely do it again!
Anonymous bec I discussed this with friends IRL!


Op here, can you give me a little more info please? Name of company, contact info, price. Maybe I'll do that for tomorrow.
Back to top

ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 08 2015, 10:54 am
oliveoil wrote:
I'm not sidestepping the issue. It disgusts me when people act like they own their cleaning help, and think everyone should band together to pay them the same rate. If you were the employee, wouldn't you want the opportunity for increased pay?

It's only an "opportunity for increased pay" if the fact that the other woman employs her three days a week wasn't a factor. If the cleaner was pressured in any way to do the extra hours or lose her current hours with the other employer, it's less of an opportunity and more of an immoral-bordering-on-illegal move on the other employer's part that benefits only her, not the cleaner.

That said - OP, I don't think you should assume the other employer was responsible for the woman not showing up to work. OK, so she had the motivation, but that doesn't mean she definitely did what you think she did. There are still other likely scenarios.

Either way, sorry you had an extra headache to deal with. I hope it all works out for the best.
Back to top

amother
Royalblue


 

Post Wed, Apr 08 2015, 11:32 am
I doubt she gave her more money. More likely that this woman is afraid to lose her steady job and/or she has more allegiance to the person whose house she works in three days a week. Which means that the other woman is totally taking advantage. I've been both the multiple day employer and the once a week employer so I know how it feels from both ends.

To that end, I once had a cleaning lady 2.5 days a week who was the live in of someone in my neighborhood for 20 years-- she sponsored her, taught her English, etc., and she started working for me when this other woman's kids got older. I was always so impressed that no matter what was going on, if it was my day she came, even though this other woman was so used to her help and was practically family to her. I was always so thankful but this makes me respect both my cleaning lady and her original employer even more!
Back to top

debsey




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 08 2015, 12:46 pm
amother wrote:
Op here, can you give me a little more info please? Name of company, contact info, price. Maybe I'll do that for tomorrow.

I would like that information too. My cleaning lady disappeared (but I know why - and it is not poaching - she has custody troubles with her ex) and I'd hire such a service.
I think posting the name would help the business and people on here who are looking to hire.
Back to top

Miri7




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 08 2015, 1:38 pm
OP, you just need a new cleaning lady who will be straight with you and will show up when she says she'll be there.

Our cleaning lady comes to us twice a week (not whole days) and I know she also works for a frum friend of ours. Before Pesach, my cleaning lady checks in to see what extra time I need, checks with the other frum family, and then works it out so that we both get extra time. She doesn't want to book herself solid with one family and then have the other left hanging. If we need her a lot then she will ask her sister to help out, which we did this year. I REALLY appreciate this and think it's a great way to do business. It's a win for everyone - she gets the maximum amount of work, we get all the help we need, we know we can count on her, and there is no stress on our friendship with the other family because we're not "poaching" one another's cleaning help.

(I am really appreciating my cleaning help right now. I should probably give her a bonus in thanks for all of her help!!)
Back to top

debsey




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 08 2015, 1:41 pm
cookiecutter wrote:
I usually cringe when people complain about "raising the rates for everyone" and "forcing me to pay more for my cleaning lady". But this is different IMO. Day to day, people are entitled to the highest pay they can get for their work. If the market sets the rate at $15 then you shouldn't criticize your neighbor for failing to collude with you to keep pay at $13.

But in the pre-pesach rush, it's not a free market. If the cleaning woman said "I have lots of people offering me more" and OP had the opportunity to match or say "if you don't come in erev pesach don't come in on Monday" then that would be fine. But OP does not seem to have had that opportunity. She found out she wasn't going to have help when the help failed to show up.


I agree with you on this. When a cleaning lady says "Now I'm used to working in a kosher kitchen, my English is better, I think I deserve more per hour" and a group of ladies collude to pay her less, that's wrong and if they lose her, GOOD. That's the free market at work.

But, if you have a lady and you have offered her steady employment (maybe even having her on days that the work is light but you know it's not nice just to randomly cancel on her since she counts on her income), it is not OK for someone to ARTIFICIALLY inflate the wage, just for a day or two, during crunch season.

Two different situations completely.
Back to top

ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 08 2015, 2:08 pm
debsey wrote:
it is not OK for someone to ARTIFICIALLY inflate the wage, just for a day or two, during crunch season.

But it's not artificial. Demand for cleaning help is way higher than usual in the weeks before Pesach, and wages are naturally higher too. Someone who has free hours can charge 150% the usual yearly rate before Pesach.

Pre-Pesach cleaning is usually extra "heavy," too, stuff like moving furniture and scrubbing out ovens. Another factor in the wage hike.

I do think it's dishonest to tell someone you'll work for them at a certain time for a certain amount, and then cancel if you get a better offer.
Back to top

amother
Ginger


 

Post Wed, Apr 08 2015, 2:14 pm
amother wrote:
Op here, can you give me a little more info please? Name of company, contact info, price. Maybe I'll do that for tomorrow.


The company is called my clean. They bring their own cleaning supplies. Look on. Amazon local (new York city and chicago). It was $120 for 5.5 hours + 3.5 hours another time.
Back to top

debsey




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 08 2015, 2:17 pm
ora_43 wrote:
But it's not artificial. Demand for cleaning help is way higher than usual in the weeks before Pesach, and wages are naturally higher too. Someone who has free hours can charge 150% the usual yearly rate before Pesach.

Pre-Pesach cleaning is usually extra "heavy," too, stuff like moving furniture and scrubbing out ovens. Another factor in the wage hike.

I do think it's dishonest to tell someone you'll work for them at a certain time for a certain amount, and then cancel if you get a better offer.


I'd have no problem with it if my cleaning lady said - look, I'm usually ironing and washing the floor and now you're asking me to move furniture - please pay me more. I'd agree. I might negotiate a bit, but sounds fair to me.

I used to hire a high school girl to be my "mother's helper" in the evenings. When she graduated high school, I didn't need so much of a mother's helper, more of a "homework helper" she said to me - that's more like tutoring, I want to be paid as a tutor. She was right - so I paid her more. I didn't pay her what an EXPERIENCED tutor makes, but I did pay her more. It's harder to do math HW with a first grader than it is to take a 5 year old to the park. That's FAIR

But when you hire someone and you give them steady employment and they don't show up, SPECIFICALLY during a crunch time - to me, that means it's time to fire them.

That being said - the person who hires away someone else's cleaning help is doing something that R' Forscheimer in Lakewood said is called "despicable" by the Torah. It is NOT ok, not halachically, and also not OK when you just use the "fifth Shulchan Aruch" of common sense.
Back to top

SRS




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 08 2015, 6:29 pm
I'm curious if anyone who has hired cleaning help has actually EMPLOYED their cleaner as an employee, rather than paying them for their services as a contractor. To some that might seem like a minor point, but to me it is a major point in the discussion. An employee should absolutely give notice. A contractor who does not come through is simply sinking their own business, but I'm not sure that a cleaning contractor has the same responsibility for handing off the job as a lawyer on a deadline especially if there is nothing written.

It would be silly to hunt down the cleaning lady "snatcher". The cleaner can book her calendar as she sees fit and at the reputation of her business. It makes sense to try and book more and higher paying jobs before Pesach. But it doesn't make a ton of business sense to trade in slightly higher paying jobs for steady jobs year round.

I do think more people should consider cleaning services with set rates.
Back to top
Page 2 of 3 Previous  1  2  3  Next Recent Topics




Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Household Management -> Cleaning & Laundry

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Can someone help me find my size in dress blank clothing?
by amother
4 Wed, Mar 27 2024, 12:44 pm View last post
Interior car cleaning Monsey
by amother
1 Mon, Mar 25 2024, 10:07 pm View last post
Can someone please explain laser my daughter wants full body
by amother
24 Wed, Mar 20 2024, 3:36 pm View last post
Can someone find me a dress for bar mitzvah?
by amother
1 Tue, Mar 19 2024, 6:16 am View last post
S/o cleaning help can’t afford
by amother
56 Mon, Mar 18 2024, 8:37 pm View last post