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Please help me I can not take this anymore
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BREINDEL1




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 17 2015, 3:45 am
Ill start by leting you know that my English is not 100%.

Im having a hard time wearing my wig, I feel like it is not allowed to wear, I live in Israel and most women wear wigs around me, in my family we all wear head scarfs because thats what my sisters wanted but one of my sisters wears a wig sometimes and I have a sister in law who always wears wigs. My husband mom hates her wig so she is wearing a snood my sister in laws all wear shietels.

I am not sure what is wrong with me but this is making me sad and upset, I feel like if I dress nice and wear a wig men will sin because of me, my sister told me to snap out of it and that I wear modest cloths and that I should not wear old granny clothes , I know my skirts and shirts are fine its just that I love fashion and the romantic look but feel bad dressing nice or wearing colors, I feel like I need to wear black or not wear makeup, this is really bad cuz I dont wear much makeup anyway just light blush eye shadow and liner, I am not wearing black I dress very proper and nice but walking in street makes me nervous and worry that men look at me.
I have a face that many look at, not sure why I dont think I am so pretty but I know that many have told my mom how nice my face and my brown eyes are, I was reading a book and it said that if a women makes a men look at her she will pay for it in hell, also being married and wearing a sheitel makes me feel even worst about this I hate seeing jewish girls wearing fancy wigs, I hate the fact that all wigs have a skin top thay looks as if its our hair, I hate it even more that now its a new thing to make wigs with lace front, how will a guy know we are married?
I hate it thay we wear hair to cover our hair this makes no sense!

I need help understanding this Mitzva and also I need to make myself understand that beauty is not assur...

I met some Rebezhins who brained washed me, I was not always this way, they had a lecture in my shul many women got up and left because these women said we should all wear shuall (not sure how to spell this) and I left too late cuz most of the stuff got to me and I want to make these feeling go away.

Please dont judge me.
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hila




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 17 2015, 6:19 am
I think you are living in a strange world, and it is not the Judaism that I know.
עבדו את ה' בשמחה
said David Hamelech in Tehillim.

Serve Hashem with joy.

Do not be afraid all your life. The world is there to enjoy. Do what you enjoy within the bounds of halacha.

Dont worry about what others think. Hashem is your boss Smile

Relax and enjoy the world around you.
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imasinger




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 17 2015, 6:23 am
Let me see if I understand.

You don't think it's right to cover hair with hair.

Your mother, husband's mother, and most of your sisters wear mitpachot. Your SIL's do not.

Most other women in your community wear sheitels.

You also have an emotional sense that you are eye-catching enough that if you make yourself too attractive, you may cause a man to sin.

You shared this thought with a sister, who told you that you do not have to wear a burka to be modest. But inside, you are still afraid. And you wonder how other women can dress in colors or wear sheitels, and not be guilty of aveira.

Why do you post this here on imamother? Are you looking for support from others who don't wear sheitels? Do you worry that you are obsessing about this?

More importantly, what does your husband think?
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imaima




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 17 2015, 6:26 am
hila these are wonderful words you came up with. I found it very hard to say something without bashing OP's community, so I just want to send hugs.

Would it be helpful to ask what your dh prefers? Without giving all these details, just ask how do you like me more, with the sheitel or with the tichel? hes the only man who you need to take into consideration.
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chagru




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 17 2015, 6:35 am
It seems like it's not OP community. She said many woman got up and left the lecture. No Rav will tell you that wearing a burka is the way a woman should dress. You need to find a mentor in real life who will address this issue with you. Burka wearing ladies on the internet sounds like an oxymoron to me
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Sadie




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 17 2015, 6:36 am
OP, it is a big mitzva to beautify yourself for your husband. Think of the women in Mitzrayim who dressed to meet their husbands every day; Hashem told Moshe to build the mishkan with their makeup mirrors!
Dress in a way that pleases you and your husband, no one else's opinion matters. You do not have to wear a wig if you don't like it. In Israel it is perfectly acceptable to wear tichels and be considered put together. If you like tichels better, go for it. You can choose beautiful colors. Don't be afraid.
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BREINDEL1




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 17 2015, 7:07 am
Hila why am I living in a strange world?

And imaima its not my community its the effect of a book I was reading and that shiur, I did not know this was such a shiur they used some famous frum ladys name on the AD she was talking about jewish life and had a funny show then all of sudden some nice looking lady walked up and talked nicely about am yisroel and when we all agreed with her she pulled out a cape shawl with balck roses design and said she is wearing this so men wont sin then many left but I stayed because my friend felt bad for that lady,


Growing up I was always too nice and I feel like its easy to get to me, I am 25 and trying hard to work on it that is why I posted this so other women will tell me what my sister said and I will say the same to myself until I get over this issue,

For those who asked what my husband thinks well he loves my wig, he wants me to dress the way I love and he is trying to help me get over the fear of sin, he said it is not my fault guys look at me, I have what u call a baby face so some guys not frum ones ask for my number, he was with me a bunch of times when this happen but he is saying its not my fault...

I am just asking for you to please reffer me to normal books regrding my work for hasem as a women, many books I have read in hebrew are mostly about being modest but I feel like those books are not what I call modest...and what many dont call modest but a cult way of living...

I was not like this before and while living in America I felt like I belonged but here I dress diffrenet, I recently moved to a more frum area I used to live in Ramat Eshkol there I was just normal looking here I look like I am from a magazine (that what my apt owner said)
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mille




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 17 2015, 7:20 am
Men sin on their own volition, you don't cause men to sin. Even if you ran around in a bikini, you are not causing anything. Men are not animals who are unable to control their actions, so if a man does not control himself, that is his fault, not yours. This line of thought is degrading to both men AND women.

This post is exactly why I find it so disturbing that some groups within our religion blame women for everything.
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BREINDEL1




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 17 2015, 7:29 am
mille wrote:
Men sin on their own volition, you don't cause men to sin. Even if you ran around in a bikini, you are not causing anything. Men are not animals who are unable to control their actions, so if a man does not control himself, that is his fault, not yours. This line of thought is degrading to both men AND women.

This post is exactly why I find it so disturbing that some groups within our religion blame women for everything.


You have no idea how much this post just helped me! Many do blame us for terror attacks and murder of jews around the world, living in Israel I get to see this alot if theres a terror attack all of sudden u she ads and posters blaming wig wearers and I am trying not to listen to this,
I will take a screen shot of your post and repeat this in my head Men are not animals who are unable to control their actions, so if a man does not control himself, that is his fault, not MINE!!!" its not like I am running down the street with a mini skirt and high heels and chasing men right?!?! I mean I am a super lame runner anyway...
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Iymnok




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 17 2015, 7:38 am
The burka ladies' rav doesn't want them wearing these. Even they feel it's too extreme. Rav Falk's book is very machmir, if you followed it to the letter you would be tznius according to all halachic views. You can do it in a way that looks beautiful. If a man sins by looking at you and you have made normal effort in your dress, he is solely responsible, you were not a michshol.
You should look attractive, not attracting.
Don't pay attention to your landlords comment, she's from a different culture.
As wth everything, do your hishtadlus and feel great that you are doing Hashem's will. Being neurotic is not what Hashem wants.
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imaima




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 17 2015, 7:48 am
BREINDEL1 wrote:
You have no idea how much this post just helped me! Many do blame us for terror attacks and murder of jews around the world, living in Israel I get to see this alot if theres a terror attack all of sudden u she ads and posters blaming wig wearers and I am trying not to listen to this,
I will take a screen shot of your post and repeat this in my head Men are not animals who are unable to control their actions, so if a man does not control himself, that is his fault, not MINE!!!" its not like I am running down the street with a mini skirt and high heels and chasing men right?!?! I mean I am a super lame runner anyway...


Not only is it his fault, but he is supposed to overcome his yetzer hara in order to get chelek be olam haba. How can he do it, if he had no yetzer hara at all? Olam haba ist his reward for controling himself. You are a creature of Hashem, you were born beautifup to give nachas to your parents, enjoyment to your dh, and like any other beautiful creature, you proclaim Hashem's glory. maybe some men cannot handle that, well that is why the get a reward - it is supposed to be a struggle! And non-Jewish ones who approach you in the street -you don' even need to worry about those.... They probably jump on anyone with a skirt on.
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BREINDEL1




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 17 2015, 8:03 am
imaima wrote:
Not only is it his fault, but he is supposed to overcome his yetzer hara in order to get chelek be olam haba. How can he do it, if he had no yetzer hara at all? Olam haba ist his reward for controling himself. You are a creature of Hashem, you were born beautifup to give nachas to your parents, enjoyment to your dh, and like any other beautiful creature, you proclaim Hashem's glory. maybe some men cannot handle that, well that is why the get a reward - it is supposed to be a struggle! And non-Jewish ones who approach you in the street -you don' even need to worry about those.... They probably jump on anyone with a skirt on.


Thank you so much.
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finallyamommy




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 17 2015, 8:03 am
OP, I can sympathize. Honestly.

I don't wear a sheitel either, at least right now. I felt uncomfortable with my long, blonde, highlighted, wavy, windswept sheitel that my kallah teacher insisted I "needed," and even after I got it cut to shoulder-length I didn't want to wear it. My own family (granted, I'm BT) didn't recogize it as a hair covering. Now I cover all my hair with snoods, berets, and tichels, and I'm much happier.

I'm also rather well-endowed, and I struggle with making sure that my tops and skirts are loose enough. I'm not going to wear a burka or a shal, but sometimes I want a shal just for the extra comfort and lack of self-consciousness.

Colors are definitely not assur. Most of my skirts are navy or black, but I have some lovely pastel-colored blouses in shades of blue, green, and lavender, and a beautiful blue jacket for Shabbos, and I'm fine with that. No reason to wear black all the time; as long as you're not wearing extremely bright colors like red you won't stand out.

I don't wear makeup, but that's because I can't be bothered to take the time to learn how to put it on, and I don't like the feeling of it on my face. If I knew how to apply it in a pretty but natural way, I would.

To quote you, OP:

"walking in street makes me nervous and worry that men look at me.
I have a face that many look at, not sure why I dont think I am so pretty but I know that many have told my mom how nice my face and my brown eyes are, I was reading a book and it said that if a women makes a men look at her she will pay for it in hell,"

I just want to point out that you aren't MAKING a man look at you by being naturally pretty. As long as you're not dressing in a way that's provocative or attracting, you're fine. You have to do what you can, and it's up to the men not to look.

I agree with a previous poster, learn Rabbi Falk. It's a great guideline, in my opinion.

You said you live in Israel - want to go shopping together sometime?
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BREINDEL1




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 17 2015, 8:07 am
Iymnok wrote:
The burka ladies' rav doesn't want them wearing these. Even they feel it's too extreme. Rav Falk's book is very machmir, if you followed it to the letter you would be tznius according to all halachic views. You can do it in a way that looks beautiful. If a man sins by looking at you and you have made normal effort in your dress, he is solely responsible, you were not a michshol.
You should look attractive, not attracting.
Don't pay attention to your landlords comment, she's from a different culture.
As wth everything, do your hishtadlus and feel great that you are doing Hashem's will. Being neurotic is not what Hashem wants.


You are right, those women walk around and hand out papers with scary stories of the dead coming back to life just to let us all know that we sin...I know its full of lies...so I aviod these women.
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BREINDEL1




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 17 2015, 8:11 am
esheschayil wrote:
OP, I can sympathize. Honestly.

I don't wear a sheitel either, at least right now. I felt uncomfortable with my long, blonde, highlighted, wavy, windswept sheitel that my kallah teacher insisted I "needed," and even after I got it cut to shoulder-length I didn't want to wear it. My own family (granted, I'm BT) didn't recogize it as a hair covering. Now I cover all my hair with snoods, berets, and tichels, and I'm much happier.

I'm also rather well-endowed, and I struggle with making sure that my tops and skirts are loose enough. I'm not going to wear a burka or a shal, but sometimes I want a shal just for the extra comfort and lack of self-consciousness.

Colors are definitely not assur. Most of my skirts are navy or black, but I have some lovely pastel-colored blouses in shades of blue, green, and lavender, and a beautiful blue jacket for Shabbos, and I'm fine with that. No reason to wear black all the time; as long as you're not wearing extremely bright colors like red you won't stand out.

I don't wear makeup, but that's because I can't be bothered to take the time to learn how to put it on, and I don't like the feeling of it on my face. If I knew how to apply it in a pretty but natural way, I would.

To quote you, OP:

"walking in street makes me nervous and worry that men look at me.
I have a face that many look at, not sure why I dont think I am so pretty but I know that many have told my mom how nice my face and my brown eyes are, I was reading a book and it said that if a women makes a men look at her she will pay for it in hell,"

I just want to point out that you aren't MAKING a man look at you by being naturally pretty. As long as you're not dressing in a way that's provocative or attracting, you're fine. You have to do what you can, and it's up to the men not to look.

I agree with a previous poster, learn Rabbi Falk. It's a great guideline, in my opinion.

You said you live in Israel - want to go shopping together sometime?


Where are you from in Israel?
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finallyamommy




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 17 2015, 8:21 am
BREINDEL1 wrote:
Where are you from in Israel?


PMing you.
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dveikus




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 17 2015, 2:34 pm
Breindel, it sounds like the book and the lecture started a brainwashing process, but B"H you're still thinking for yourself.

I suggest you look at our gedolim. Rebbetzin Kanievsky wore a partial sheitel (hair on the forehead) with a hat. Nobody would suggest that Rebbetzin Kanievsky caused anyone to sin, chv"sh. Her husband is Rav Kanievsky shlita and her father was Rav Elyashiv zt"l - the posek hador in his time. If there was ANY problem with her hair covering, she would have been told by both of them. If a shawl would have been a better choice, they would have told her so, and she certainlt would have complied. She did NOT wear a shawl.

While a shawl provides more coverage, it also attracts more attention, since it stands out in a crowd. Drawing attention to yourself is not tznius.

A Rav once said, why do we have lines on the street? To separate cars going in opposite directions. We see everybody stays on their side. If we decide to be different and drive on the other side, we will crash. He said that if we see the majority in klal yisrael doing something, we should do so as well. The rabbim have a z'chus, Hashem protects us from sin.

We should not make ourselves different. Most women are wearing sheitels or tichels, so these are fine choices for you. A shawl is not - it's crossing the line, leaving the mainstream of klal yisrael, and possibly even forfeiting the bracha of Hashem's protection of us as part of the rabbim, from what the Rav said.

It sounds like you want to grow in ruchnius. Hashem takes us in the way we want to go, so keep wanting good things! Why not choose an area in which to grow along lines accepted in the community? Do more chessed, increase your davening, say Tehillim, learn hilchos Shabbos, volunteer with bikur cholim, etc. And if you specifically want to grow in tznius, ask a Rebbetzin for suggestions. But NOT a burka/shawl-wearing Rebbetzin. A Rebbetzin who is known and accepted in mainstream circles.

Hatzlacha rabbah!
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Dolly Welsh




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 17 2015, 3:26 pm
Gorgeous young woman.

It brings some attention. It just does.

Just wear a loose nice shirt that covers your curves and is not a low neckline. Something normal for a young person but loose.

If you aren't happy in a wig, wear a tichel! Doesn't your husband allow it? Don't worry about your sister. It's your husband's feelings that matter not hers.

You don't sound as if you need makeup. I think you will feel better without it.

AT HOME you can dress up in every beautiful thing, for your husband.

It is true, once you have done your best, what other people think is their problem.

Carry yourself discreetly; don't meet eyes, don't sit down with men, don't answer if they talk to you.

I think you will be fine.

This is eternal. Some people just draw eyes. There is a WAY to deflect them. Yet it's work, and no, it isn't fair. But that's the way it is.

Hugs.
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mille




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 17 2015, 7:12 pm
BREINDEL1 wrote:
You have no idea how much this post just helped me! Many do blame us for terror attacks and murder of jews around the world, living in Israel I get to see this alot if theres a terror attack all of sudden u she ads and posters blaming wig wearers and I am trying not to listen to this,
I will take a screen shot of your post and repeat this in my head Men are not animals who are unable to control their actions, so if a man does not control himself, that is his fault, not MINE!!!" its not like I am running down the street with a mini skirt and high heels and chasing men right?!?! I mean I am a super lame runner anyway...


I'm so glad. It's disgusting and ridiculous that women are being told that their skirt length and hair covering is contributing to the horrors and tragedies in the world. It's taking the blame away from the people who are ACTUALLY responsible, the people who are sinning and causing destruction and doing heinous crimes.

It's not your fault! Keep telling yourself that! If a man can't control himself because of your sheitel, he has much much bigger problems to worry about...
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BREINDEL1




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Apr 18 2015, 1:11 pm
dveikus wrote:
Breindel, it sounds like the book and the lecture started a brainwashing process, but B"H you're still thinking for yourself.

I suggest you look at our gedolim. Rebbetzin Kanievsky wore a partial sheitel (hair on the forehead) with a hat. Nobody would suggest that Rebbetzin Kanievsky caused anyone to sin, chv"sh. Her husband is Rav Kanievsky shlita and her father was Rav Elyashiv zt"l - the posek hador in his time. If there was ANY problem with her hair covering, she would have been told by both of them. If a shawl would have been a better choice, they would have told her so, and she certainlt would have complied. She did NOT wear a shawl.

While a shawl provides more coverage, it also attracts more attention, since it stands out in a crowd. Drawing attention to yourself is not tznius.

A Rav once said, why do we have lines on the street? To separate cars going in opposite directions. We see everybody stays on their side. If we decide to be different and drive on the other side, we will crash. He said that if we see the majority in klal yisrael doing something, we should do so as well. The rabbim have a z'chus, Hashem protects us from sin.

We should not make ourselves different. Most women are wearing sheitels or tichels, so these are fine choices for you. A shawl is not - it's crossing the line, leaving the mainstream of klal yisrael, and possibly even forfeiting the bracha of Hashem's protection of us as part of the rabbim, from what the Rav said.

It sounds like you want to grow in ruchnius. Hashem takes us in the way we want to go, so keep wanting good things! Why not choose an area in which to grow along lines accepted in the community? Do more chessed, increase your davening, say Tehillim, learn hilchos Shabbos, volunteer with bikur cholim, etc. And if you specifically want to grow in tznius, ask a Rebbetzin for suggestions. But NOT a burka/shawl-wearing Rebbetzin. A Rebbetzin who is known and accepted in mainstream circles.

Hatzlacha rabbah!


Thank you so much! I AM SO HAPPY I POSTED THIS!
I do chessed I volunteer and rescue jewish girls from Arab villages I find it to be very satisfying,
its amazing you mentioned Rebbetzin Kanievsky on that shiur add they wrote the shiur will talk about her, and thats how they got many ladies to come to the shiur...

I must say this shabbos I was having a much better feeling walking to the park and I noticed many dress the way I do, I love the pleated skirt look and tucking my shirt inside the skirt,

I dress by halach closed neck line loose fitting cloths, cover my arm to the point needed... I am sure with all of the great help from you ladies Ill get over this soon! Amen. Very Happy
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