Tell parents the truth or not? re: playroup

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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Preschoolers

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amother

Jetblack

Wed, Apr 22 2015, 10:14 pm

Posting this for a friend.

1-My friend "Sarah" is a playgroup assistant. Has been working in same place for 4 years. She is loved by the children and parents. Is very capable. Playgroup is in the Morahs basement.

2-There are 12 children in the playroup. Sarah is there from the time the children show up until they leave, with a 1/2 hour break during the day.

3- The Morah is scheduled to be there from 9-1. She is in the house, but doesn't come down to the playgroup until anywhere from 11-11:45.

4-Although it annoys Sarah, she is very capable of taking care of the children on her own.

5-A parent asks Sarah "when is Morah with the children?" Sarah responds "she is scheduled to be here from 9-1". Most parents let it go at that. One parent picked up on the way she said that and asked "when is she really with them?"

Sarah doesn't want to ruin this Morahs reputation, but doesn't like lying either. Should she tell parents the truth anyway? Would you want to know even though your child is perfectly happy with Morah Sarah?
Sarah is so popular that some parents send to this playgroup because of her, and not the Morah. (Sarah is in her 20's and married if that makes any difference.)

Sarah asked me to ask here what she should do. Is it loshon hora to tell the truth?

causemommysaid

Wed, Apr 22 2015, 10:21 pm

If she is in the house then there is technically another adult around to help if something goes wrong so there is no actual danger of one person and too many kids.

The only reason I am bothered is because the "Morah" is being dishonest and I wouldn't want a dishonest person watching my child. Who knows what else they lie about?

Sarah should talk to the Morah and tell her the parents are noticing and asking questions and go from there.

boysrus

Wed, Apr 22 2015, 11:01 pm

amother wrote:

O.M.G!
Sarah is reall being taken advantage of! she is probably working for a low salary ( I am guessing between 10 and 15$/hr) and being made to work so hard! on her own, which is not so safe nd not very legal! poor sarah.
If it was me, I would not feel that I needed to hide it from the parnts. I cant believe it is so far into the school year and the parents dont know bout this! This is unbelievably dishonest of the morah, just wow!
scary! the parents think that morah is the on e mainly responnsible for their kids and have sent to the plagyroup becuase they wanted that specific morah possibly. she is using this as a business and then taking it easy! she is working few hours and mking huge profit!
I think sarah should ask her Rav to psken on this for her.

questioner

Wed, Apr 22 2015, 11:26 pm

Sarah should open a playgroup of her own next year so that she makes the profit for the work she is doing and is saved from the ethical dilemma.

However, if she has any plans of opening her own playgroup ever, the morah she works for will be the obvious reference that she will give people. She should be careful not to antagonize the morah and sadly, hurt herself in the process.

smss

Wed, Apr 22 2015, 11:32 pm

boysrus wrote:

this, 100%, and also as a parent I would be horrified to think that I was sending my child to a gan with 2 teachers and it was actually only 1. I'm sure sarah is great but I don't think one person can handle 12 playgroup-aged children alone. so yeah, I would definitely want to know as a parent. but I second asking a rav how to approach this...

Simple1

Wed, Apr 22 2015, 11:43 pm

causemommysaid wrote:

Sarah should talk to the Morah and tell her the parents are noticing and asking questions and go from there.

She should do this.

I don't think she should have to lie. But if she wants to protect the Morah, she can discuss it with her.

rowo

Thu, Apr 23 2015, 12:50 am

She needs to speak to the woman in charge and maybe let her know that the parents are asking and she's going to be honest with them.
I think she needs to be honest with the parents.
As a parent I would not feel confident knowing that my child was one of 12 being cared for by one person for most of the time (of the 1 hr 15 mins that the 'boss' is there 'Sarah' is having her lunch break for 1/2 hour)
Where I live I think the legal ratio for 2 yr olds (I'm assuming that's the age of kids given its a playgroup) is I think 1adult to four kids. Just based on my experience with kids I wouldn't feel safe with 1 adult and 12 kids. If ch'v they needed to get outside in an emergency in a hurry that's a bit much for one person no matter how well they can run a circle time for that many kids. Not the mention the everyday lack of attention they would be getting on an individual level.

Sarah doesn't need to confront the boss aggressivly, she can calmly let her know that parents have been asking and she doesn't feel comfortable lying.

Onisa

Thu, Apr 23 2015, 1:12 am

I would even rephrase. Sara should say:"the parents are wondering if you really work from nine o'clock. I do not know what to say" angelic look.

mmyy

Thu, Apr 23 2015, 9:51 am

I was an assistant in a playgroup for couples of years one year I was in the same situation where the morah was very busy (pregnancy and marring off oldest daughter ) I didn't know what to say when mothers asked me where is she I said all kind of excuses but after a while they understood by themselves that she is nor really in so much and then some of them called her direct and than she starter to show up more and also hired another girl to help some hours so maybe she should tell them they should talk direct to the morah after all she is the manager and Sarah is just an assistent

Stars

Thu, Apr 23 2015, 9:58 am

If I was a parent I'd want to know about this. Have her discuss it with the Morah.

imasinger

Thu, Apr 23 2015, 10:15 am

If I were in Sarah's shoes, when asked directly on the spot, I'd say, " I feel that is a question you should ask Morah yourself."

After the fact, I agree with Onisa about the "I don't know what to say" approach to Morah.

Did Sarah ever approach Morah about the issue? I'm sad to read that this has been going on for months. I hope Sarah has been looking for other work options for a while. One does not benefit from working with dishonest, unscrupulous people.

UQT

Thu, Apr 23 2015, 10:18 am

Can't believe it's this far into the year and the kids didn't tell their mothers. None of the children ever said "My Morah doesn't come till after fruit time" or "Morah blank only comes for the end of the day?" I know a lot more about what goes on by Morah's house than the teachers will ever dream. (And I know the teachers know an embarrassing amount of what goes on by our house.)

Could be that's why the parents are asking.

princessleah

Thu, Apr 23 2015, 11:55 am

Is this a licensed family daycare? If so, there are strict legal requirements in terms of ratio. The daycare where my kids go, the teacher does not cross the threshold of the room to go into the hallway.
If it's not licensed, that's a whole other problem.

sbil

Thu, Apr 23 2015, 9:08 pm

She should tell the parents. For 12 kids you need two set of eyes. One of the reasons why the parents might be sending their kids to this group is the student to teacher ratio. Also how old are the kids?

amother

Pearl

Fri, Apr 24 2015, 5:25 am

As a parent I would definitely want to know..

I checked out a playgroup on 2 different dates at random times a few minutes before I had told the teacher I would stop in and both times she wasn't there until the exact time I had said I would come and after speaking to more people I realized it was really run by her assistant 80% of the time and did not send to her.

Amother in case that gannenet is on here.

amother

Periwinkle

Fri, Apr 24 2015, 7:42 am

This is an issue thats been bothering me for a very long time, I should create a spin off to address this so more people can see what Im saying.

I work in an "illegal" gan. I am an assistant. We watch a lot of babies, and there are only 2 of us adults there. Its a revolving door of workers, all frum. The Morah whos house its in has very little to do with the group. She is on her phone or computer the entire day. Im not kidding and Im not exaggerating. She lets the babies sit in their bouncy seats and cry. They cry all day. From the second I get there until right before I leave, Im carrying babies around to stop the, from crying, but my boss, the Morah gets upset that I do this because she feels itll make it worse because then the babies expect to be held. Like the Morah in OPs post, this morah leaves me alone with the kids and she actually leaves the house. She knows she can get away with this because the mothers who send to her dont check in at all with her during the day. They drop off and come the very last second possible.

Ladies, listen to me. If your kids are in illegal daycares, the gannenet is not answering to anyone. She can do and get away with anything. No one is holding her accountable. It is YOUR responsibility to check in , unannounced, at any time. Are you sure you know whats going on? Becoming facebook friends with the gannenet is a great way to see what shes doing during the day. Personally, I sent my daughter to a daycare and the caretaker was posting on FB all day long, so I knew she wasnt watching my daughter and puller her out. I cant stress this enough - pop in at random times. Dont ring the bell, just come in. Make a small mark on your kids diaper so youll know when you pick up if the diaper was changed during the day. Pack only enough diapers and food for your 1 kid for the 1 day, or it will be shared. Label all the clothing or it will mysteriously disappear.

I know daycare is costly, and thats why so many illegal places exist. Stay at home moms babysit in their houses to make extra money. Fab. Thats illegal. Just know whats going on when you make a choice.

I should start an "I work at an illegal gan, AMA" thread.

GreenEyes26

Fri, Apr 24 2015, 8:39 am

amother wrote:

Why are you still working here?? Why have you not told the mothers?? Babies crying all day? My mouth literally dropped open at the description of this daycare. Why are you allowing this to continue!?! Tell someone! Tell enough mothers so that this place goes out of business! You can always find another gan assistant job. Why are you letting these innocent babies continue to suffer? Your boss is a monster!

saw50st8

Fri, Apr 24 2015, 8:43 am

amother wrote:

I know daycare is costly, and thats why so many illegal places exist. Stay at home moms babysit in their houses to make extra money. Fab. Thats illegal. Just know whats going on when you make a choice.

That's not necessarily illegal. Where I live, you can watch up to 5 kids other than your own in your home and not be illegal (unless you meant unlicensed).

causemommysaid

Fri, Apr 24 2015, 10:14 am

amother wrote:

This is not how all illegal day cares are run. My babies have all gone to someone who is the most loving kind sweet bubby type of morah who knows exactly how much the baby slept/ate/was changed etc.

I am horrified by what you write and I hope you are going to tell the mothers. How can you let this continue? How do the parents not realize that their kids are crying all day long? Its fairly obvious when a child is being neglected.

amother

Periwinkle

Fri, Apr 24 2015, 12:22 pm

causemommysaid wrote:

How I ended up working there is a long story that Im not going to go into here. The morah says the parents know what her "style" is. I have told the parents before that their child cried the whole day. Nothing phases some people I guess. I feel that its better that I stay there as opposed to leaving and she will hire someone who will let the babies scream. At least while I am there, I can help. But I did discuss this with my rav (if I have the achrayis to tell the parents), and he said that I can answer a question directly (did Shloymie scream today?) but not offer info unless its asked of me. The parents know who they have watching their kids. Honestly, as a parent, its MY job to know whats going on where my kids are. I drop by school unannounced. I watch. I visit. I ask. These babies are too young to ask, so its the parents responsibility to come and see.

Ive been working with her for a few years now. She has a reputation for being dependable and never closing. Parents like that. Even snow days she is open.

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