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Help! Not managing- what do people do?
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Raisin




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 27 2015, 6:20 am
Barbara wrote:
Actually, lots of schools count home equity in the EFC.

What they don't do is reduce EFC based on a high mortgage. Or on the fact that you're paying for private school. They're looking at INCOME and assets. IOW, a fast and dirty way to calculate your EFC is based on income and number of dependents. It won't be exact.

But in any case, you might do well to read what I'm saying, instead of attacking me just because you want to be nasty.

I said that had OP suffered a reversal in her economic fortunes, I would have agreed that she should receive tuition assistance.

But buying a house that put her $1500 a month in the hole, then saying that she wouldn't work full time because it was just too hard for her, and "she wanted to be the one to raise her children" doesn't work with me.


Its not clear to me that OP was being financially irresponsible by buying a home. She says it is a small house and mortgage is cheaper then rent. I am not sure why in that case she is $1500 in the red each month. Maybe it is a short term thing due to house expenses.

Whether or not she should work is another question. I agree she should find some part time work to make more money. But we don't know how many kids she has at home during the day (who she would need to pay for childcare for) and other details.
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Raisin




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 27 2015, 6:27 am
Also, Op, you might not think you are cut out for homeschooling a bunch of kids, or homeschool a boy who needs to learn mishnayos, but maybe homeschool one or two of them. Perhaps the preschool aged kids, where they are mostly just playing anyway.
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amother
Magenta


 

Post Mon, Apr 27 2015, 7:32 am
Why is OP hiding if she is living in a suburb and paying two to three times the property tax then living in the city. Her husband is obviously not making enough salary that if he lived in the city he wouldn't be paying that much city tax anyway.
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mille




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 27 2015, 7:44 am
amother wrote:
op. thanks for the helpful comments. I don't want to say too much because I don't want people to realize who I am and there are a lot of comments I completely disagree with. In other countries it is perfectly normal for women not to work. Up until late 1900's it was normal here too. Mothers should be raising their children. It's part of chinuch habanim. Children who are raised by a nanny or babysitter don't turn out the same. I know I'll get a hundred of you disagreeing with me- but it's true. A school has no right to tell a mother they can't give a break because she doesn't work. They can't tell a family how they should be running their family or raising their children. And there are many people who get a break when the husband is getting a decent salary in kollel, the wife has a great job- their income is way above others and for some reason they still get a break despite the fact that they can afford help, vacations, etc. And to whoever said it's irresponsible to have more children if you can't afford - that is SO ANTI-TORAH! And to whoever said shame on yeshivahs - I agree! How can they be ok with letting a jewish child go to public school??
And just so you know no one would ever suspect this of me which is why I don't want to answer some of the questions.


Seriously? Get a job, homeschool your kids, or stop spending so much money. Those are your options. You can kick and scream about "anti-torah" or "omg my parenting style is better than yours" all you want, but the BOTTOM LINE is that you spend almost $20,000 more than you make, apparently, and that money has to come from somewhere. You can't spend more than you earn. That is the most basic rule of finance, and it's absurd that someone has gotten to the stage of buying a home without understanding this.

OP, you have no one to blame but yourself.
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SRS




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 27 2015, 11:47 am
So you don't want to work? Tell your husband to earn more. It really is that simple. Perhaps he can take a weekend and evening job and then in a year from now we can discuss the importance of having a father in a child's life. Smile

If it was up to me, I'd set yeshiva tuition at whatever price and cut scholarships altogether. So you choose not to work and some other family is told that both parents need to work full time and have the grandparents pitch in because the school needs money.
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amother
Gold


 

Post Mon, Apr 27 2015, 12:17 pm
if it was up to me, I'd have day schools cut back on all their unnecessary expenses (mm, familiar) and then we can agree that people ought to pay full tuition. amother because I work in a school.
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SRS




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 27 2015, 12:25 pm
Schools make plenty of bad decisions. So do plenty of people. Even if schools cut their expenses, they still cost some major money to run and staffing is still the major expense. And the number of students on scholarship is just untenable. Our OP doesn't see why she should work to pay tuition. I don't think she needs to pay tuition. She has options like we all do. Work is one option. Homeschool is another option. Public school is another option. But her neighbors are working to pay tuition. I'm not sure why she thinks they should have to cover her.
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Barbara




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 27 2015, 12:26 pm
amother wrote:
if it was up to me, I'd have day schools cut back on all their unnecessary expenses (mm, familiar) and then we can agree that people ought to pay full tuition. amother because I work in a school.


We'd all disagree on what expenses are "unnecessary."

I also oppose not giving any assistance. What about the Cohens, who lost their jobs and are living hand to mouth while trying to find new ones. The Schwartzes, who do quite well, but have huge expenses in connection with a child with special needs. The Levins, who are both working as best they can, and living frugally, but still can't quite come up with money. Not to mention poor Mr. Freid, whose wife died last year after a long bout with cancer.
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SRS




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 27 2015, 2:23 pm
I am really not such a hard liner, but I just don't think the school level is the best level to deal with handing out scholarships at this point for so many reasons. OP, what are you willing to do to cut expenses so you can stay at home? Is the $1500 shortfall monthly from tuition?
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amother
Bronze


 

Post Mon, Apr 27 2015, 2:31 pm
Maya wrote:
Perhaps you should move to one of those countries.
There is a strong entitlement attitude in this post.



Actually not. The schools should be working around what is feasibly affordable . Parents shouldnt' have to break their backs and not be able to raise their kids properly just because a school wants to have a certain standard of building etc. The schools aren't exactly frugal. Even without buying a home the tuition prices are wayyy over the top. The financial stress has probably caused many problems in the community.
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Iymnok




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 27 2015, 2:43 pm
amother wrote:
Actually not. The schools should be working around what is feasibly affordable . Parents shouldnt' have to break their backs and not be able to raise their kids properly just because a school wants to have a certain standard of building etc. The schools aren't exactly frugal. Even without buying a home the tuition prices are wayyy over the top. The financial stress has probably caused many problems in the community.

The schools aren't changing anything by tomorrow. They don't budget as well as we parents do. They don't have very many frugal practices.
They do have expenses.
They need to cover their expenses.
That's called tuition.
You have expenses.
You know what they are. Write each one down in a column. Next to each one write how much it could be lowered to.
It may take some time since you'll have to learn to shop and cook differently.
Don't hide it from DH.
Don't complain about tuition if it can't be changed.
Don't reminisce about a time long past.
Face life and responsibility with confidence.
Let the kids be the ones complaining that life's not fair. You are a responsible mature adult, you take what you have and build what you can.
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amother
Bronze


 

Post Mon, Apr 27 2015, 2:45 pm
Iymnok wrote:
The schools aren't changing anything by tomorrow. They don't budget as well as we parents do. They don't have very many frugal practices.
They do have expenses.
They need to cover their expenses.
That's called tuition.
You have expenses.
You know what they are. Write each one down in a column. Next to each one write how much it could be lowered to.
It may take some time since you'll have to learn to shop and cook differently.
Don't hide it from DH.
Don't complain about tuition if it can't be changed.
Don't reminisce about a time long past.
Face life and responsibility with confidence.
Let the kids be the ones complaining that life's not fair. You are a responsible mature adult, you take what you have and build what you can.



I am not the OP. This is just my opinion. I am just commenting on the fact that people say that being a SAHM is a luxury. For many people it's not. Many people can't handle working and being a mom. Nobody has the right to say otherwise.
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imaima




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 27 2015, 2:57 pm
amother wrote:
I am not the OP. This is just my opinion. I am just commenting on the fact that people say that being a SAHM is a luxury. For many people it's not. Many people can't handle working and being a mom. Nobody has the right to say otherwise.


They may do whatever they please, they just need to shell out the money for someone else to teach her kids. OP got on the high horse how she is raising her kids herself, well guess what, teaching is a part of raising, and in a yeshiva someone else does it for her. It is a service like any other.
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Barbara




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 27 2015, 2:59 pm
amother wrote:
I am not the OP. This is just my opinion. I am just commenting on the fact that people say that being a SAHM is a luxury. For many people it's not. Many people can't handle working and being a mom. Nobody has the right to say otherwise.


Correct.

No one is telling OP that she has to work.

No one is telling her husband that he has to work.

But all of those actions have consequences, and one of those consequences is having less disposable income.

In the OP's case, not working leaves her with a shortfall of $1,500 per month. And she has many options to deal with that:

(1) Find a way of reducing her expenses by $1,500 per month. Without more information, we can't tell her how to do that, but the cuts would need to be major. Including possibly selling her home, or homeschooling some or all kids.

(2) Have her husband increase his income. Since its not likely that he's going to get a $25,000 or more raise for the asking (what he'd need after taxes), that would likely mean a second job.

(3) Getting a job herself.

Or some combination of the foregoing.

But no one should expect that someone else will step in to pay the bills so that she can stay home.
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mha3484




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 27 2015, 2:59 pm
OP, I have been thinking about this thread for days. What I am about to say may be harsh but so be it.

I am the child of a mother like you. She did not feel it was her job to work but she wanted a two income lifestyle. My father does okay but not enough to live the upper middle class lifestyle that everyone else has. We have three children in our family all of us went to public school. There was no reason not to work after a certain point. No day care or tuition was needed.

Her attitude only caused resentment among my father and siblings. Every request was answered no, we cant afford that. When they divorced there was no income in our house for a year. We were not that dense. To be told there is no money but not see any attempt at working at all makes for some very angry teenagers.

Now she is having major financial problems. She wont work at starbucks, retail or anywhere because its "settling". If its not a really good job in her field she wont think about it.

My siblings and I don't look at her with respect. Its a mix of pity and disdain. We love our mother but she dug herself a huge hole when we were little kids that gets deeper and deeper as we grow up.

Working even part time, is really something that you need to think about.
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SRS




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 27 2015, 3:02 pm
amother wrote:
Actually not. The schools should be working around what is feasibly affordable . Parents shouldnt' have to break their backs and not be able to raise their kids properly just because a school wants to have a certain standard of building etc. The schools aren't exactly frugal. Even without buying a home the tuition prices are wayyy over the top. The financial stress has probably caused many problems in the community.


Let me tell you something, as much as I resent the tuition situation and find a lot of waste, the schools are most certainly working around parent's budgets which continues to make the situation worse. At this point the dog is just chasing its tail. Because people know and expect the schools to work with them, they can buy kallah jewelry, make delayed entrance into the workplace the norm, let consumerism overtake in the name of shidduchim, yontif, or whatever.

The few and far in between limit themselves and continue to push themselves to be able to pay tuition that just goes up and up and up, in a large part due to scholarship parents. A local school collects less than 45% of full tuition and their plan to close the gap is to raise tuition on the paying parents. Do you not think that some of those paying parents are struggling just like you are struggling? Not every paying parent wants to put in more hours, take on more responsibility, settle for subpar childcare, have their children in childcare longer.

Life is not fair. I think you need to make a decision if you want yeshiva for your children bad enough or if you want to be in the home bad enough. As far as I am concerned, both are valid choices.


Last edited by SRS on Mon, Apr 27 2015, 3:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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amother
Bronze


 

Post Mon, Apr 27 2015, 3:05 pm
Barbara wrote:
Correct.

No one is telling OP that she has to work.

No one is telling her husband that he has to work.

But all of those actions have consequences, and one of those consequences is having less disposable income.

In the OP's case, not working leaves her with a shortfall of $1,500 per month. And she has many options to deal with that:

(1) Find a way of reducing her expenses by $1,500 per month. Without more information, we can't tell her how to do that, but the cuts would need to be major. Including possibly selling her home, or homeschooling some or all kids.

(2) Have her husband increase his income. Since its not likely that he's going to get a $25,000 or more raise for the asking (what he'd need after taxes), that would likely mean a second job.

(3) Getting a job herself.

Or some combination of the foregoing.

But no one should expect that someone else will step in to pay the bills so that she can stay home.


I agree with you but the schools should not be putting people under such choices just because of their high standards for their institution.
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SRS




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 27 2015, 3:17 pm
amother wrote:
I agree with you but the schools should not be putting people under such choices just because of their high standards for their institution.


Outside of the modern Orthodox schools, pray tell which "high standards" these are? Because as a parent I look at these very expensive schools and just don't see anything on the general side that can rival what the public schools offer: not facilities, not special resources, not science, not sports, not gifted programs, not advanced placement courses, not vocational programs, not teacher salaries and benefits. Nothing. I don't think it is their fault. They don't have a big enough student body to do it all.

We send to day school because public schools cannot offer a Jewish environment and education first and foremost and a consistently nice set of children that mostly share our values especially going into the middle and high school years.

But the schools are not charging these tuition amounts because they are providing extreme programming. They are mostly charging the tuition amounts they do in hopes of enough parents paying those amounts to cover what the school needs to operate.
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Amarante




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 27 2015, 3:20 pm
To put it in perspective, NYC spends approximately $20,000 per pupil for the public school system. :-) And a friend who sent her girl to a private secular school had tuition of $45,000 per year. shock
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imaima




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 27 2015, 3:22 pm
amother wrote:
I agree with you but the schools should not be putting people under such choices just because of their high standards for their institution.


What kind of standards? You mentioned building. Does it mean safety standards for the kids?
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