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Forum -> Announcements & Mazel Tovs -> Tehillim Needed
Sister marrying out
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amother
Olive


 

Post Sun, Apr 26 2015, 11:49 am
My little sister is getting married to a non Jew. (I am BT and the only religious one in my family) The wedding is set for this Fall. Of course I wish she was marrying a nice Jewish boy. Short of hiring a hit man there's nothing I can do, they've been together for years. I honestly don't know what she sees in him but oh well. I feel it's important for me to go to her wedding, however depressed I would feel inside. Problem is she lives a few states away and set the wedding for a Saturday. There is doubtful an eruv where she is getting married. Maybe I can find a hotel very close by and leave my 16month old baby (who likely will still be nursing) with DH back home. Sister and I are otherwise very close. We talk on the phone a few times a week. I don't want to ruffle any feathers by not going. Better to stay on good terms since her kids will be Jewish.
What can I do? Is it possible to go by myself to this shabbos wedding? (It's not at a church)
And how can I come to terms with her marrying out?
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happybeingamom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 26 2015, 12:06 pm
Sorry you are going through this.

Please speak to a Rav who knows the family dynamics and will understand the hilchos shabbos issues.

It seems you are close to your sister and ask her if she can do the wedding a different day of the week as you will not be able to participate properly due to it being on Shabbbos.
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zaq




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 26 2015, 1:06 pm
I second speaking to an understanding rav.
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amother
Olive


 

Post Sun, Apr 26 2015, 1:18 pm
I don't have a rav I am close to. I am still pretty new to this community and am not comfortable bringing this up with any rabbi here.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 26 2015, 1:21 pm
amother wrote:
I don't have a rav I am close to. I am still pretty new to this community and am not comfortable bringing this up with any rabbi here.


You're a BT. Do you have any mentors with whom you've built a long-term relationship?
And when it comes to aseh lecha rav, yes, you do need a relationship with a local rav and I hope you find someone whom you can respect. But for issues like this, you may not be able to go local, but to someone who has extensive experience with these situations and can help you with your particular circumstances. Hatzlacha!
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amother
Seafoam


 

Post Mon, Apr 27 2015, 12:15 am
you just can't do this without discussing with daas Torah-they will guide you-if they say not to go you'll explain to your sister she'll just have to understand. did you try taking her to Esther Jungreis-she was successful in stopping these marriages
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mirror




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 27 2015, 12:31 am
amother wrote:
you just can't do this without discussing with daas Torah-they will guide you-if they say not to go you'll explain to your sister she'll just have to understand. did you try taking her to Esther Jungreis-she was successful in stopping these marriages


Op said they were living together for years. Can Ester Jungreis break up such a relationship? Or only when they had just recently started dating?
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 27 2015, 12:47 am
happybeingamom wrote:
It seems you are close to your sister and ask her if she can do the wedding a different day of the week as you will not be able to participate properly due to it being on Shabbbos.

1. OP probably won't be able to "participate properly" due to the fact that it is an intermarriage.

2. It's not so simple to request that someone simply change the date of her wedding. There are all sorts of considerations -- hall availability, what the other side wants, etc. If she's not religious, shabbat may not even be on her radar.

3. I concur with others re: finding a rav you know and trust and who is well-versed in BT issues to advise you on how you should "participate" in this wedding. Good luck!
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November




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 27 2015, 2:14 am
OP, the wedding being on Saturday may be a bracha in disguise. We had a similar situation and had to bow out because of shabbos. The family pretty much understood, though it's never easy. Hugs!
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Iymnok




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 27 2015, 2:22 am
You can contact Aish for guidance, they are very used to dealing with this type of thing. Sadly it is too common.
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imasinger




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 27 2015, 2:42 am
I'm confused.

If you are close to your sister, doesn't she know that you are shomer shabbos?

Why would she schedule a wedding on Saturday and expect you to be able to come?

Maybe she knew enough to arrange things that way so nobody else in the family could blame you for not coming?
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amother
Olive


 

Post Mon, Apr 27 2015, 7:47 am
Thank you all for your replies. I wish it were as simple as contacting a famous rebetzin but it's all just too late now . If I had known about her sooner then maybe it would have been worth a shot. But my sister is pretty stubborn and I doubt she would break it off.
Imasinger- it could be she knew enough to schedule it then so I won't come, but it also seems she may have figured that I would be able to take a ride from someone vs drive on shabbos. I was talking with my mom about having her ask my sister to change the day. My mom says " well if a non Jew can turn on a light for you on Shabbat why can't you get a ride to the wedding..."
I don't know, feels like such a mess!
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imasinger




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 27 2015, 9:15 am
Well, if anyone made assumptions without checking them with you ahead of time, use that as your rallying cry.

"Oh, I feel so awful, if only you had talked to me ahead of time; now, it's too late and there's nothing I can do!"

They can squawk, but inside, they know they made assumptions, and we all know what is the consequence of making assumptions.

Do sit down with your family, if you haven't already, and lay out very clearly that we only break Shabbos in matters of life and death, and that if they think there may be some way to work around things, they can't assume, they have to check.

And do talk to a knowledgeable rav about how to handle the interfaith aspect. Chabad or Aish have people who can advise how to juggle the complexities. Recognize that some hurt feelings on all sides are probably unavoidable; the name of the game is to work on minimizing the issue and moving on.
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molokai




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 27 2015, 11:35 am
"Better to stay on good terms since her kids will be Jewish." I am troubled whenever I hear this statement from BT's. She is your sister (parent/brother/schoolmate/friend of the family). If the only reason you keep relationships is because people are Jewish, what does that say about the sincerity of your relationships?
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amother
Copper


 

Post Mon, Apr 27 2015, 11:37 am
PinkFridge wrote:
You're a BT. Do you have any mentors with whom you've built a long-term relationship?


Another person. OT, but I'm a BT and I find that comment offensive. Why would I have a mentor? I became frum totally on my own, attended a frum school, and never needed a mentor. Why is it assumed that someone mentored you just because you're a BT?
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vintagebknyc




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 27 2015, 11:49 am
molokai wrote:
"Better to stay on good terms since her kids will be Jewish." I am troubled whenever I hear this statement from BT's. She is your sister (parent/brother/schoolmate/friend of the family). If the only reason you keep relationships is because people are Jewish, what does that say about the sincerity of your relationships?


I agree with you here, this goes along with the whole "and then you can show her/family/people on her corner" how beautiful judaism is.

I am here, I am BT, my family knows this. if they come for dinner, I don't turn it into a circus of "fun! judaic! love!". it's a loving dinner, cooked by my DH who is far better in the kitchen than I am. they know where to find answers if they want them....

pre-BT, I have a friend who was BT who just loved to invite me to shabbat dinner, and then when I got there it was a constant "this is why you should love judaism" party. I wasn't looking for judaism at the time, I was looking for a friend. I never found that in her because it was all about showing me the beauty of judaism.
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amother
Olive


 

Post Mon, Apr 27 2015, 11:58 am
molokai wrote:
"Better to stay on good terms since her kids will be Jewish." I am troubled whenever I hear this statement from BT's. She is your sister (parent/brother/schoolmate/friend of the family). If the only reason you keep relationships is because people are Jewish, what does that say about the sincerity of your relationships?
.


Oh puhleeze. Because after becoming BT I only maintain relationships with people based solely on them being Jewish? She is my family, my little sister. We are very close and talk almost every day. I don't exactly approve of her relationship with this guy but there's nothing for me to do. I can just be nice and loving and show her by example the light in the Torah way of life. I tried talking to her about intermarriage issues a while back, it fell on deaf ears. She is living her own life and that's that... It is a fact that her children will be Jewish. I am trying to make an effort to come to her wedding because I don't want to cause any tension between us, tension that could potentially have an impact on our relationship years down the line. I care for her and for any future Jewish neshamas she may bring into the world. I am trying to exercise caution and have respect for her feelings. So where exactly am I wrong in caring for our relationship and that of her future family's? Really, I resent the comment above. Just so immature and lacking any true insight into the matter.
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sequoia




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 27 2015, 12:04 pm
Ok, so just try to find a hotel nearby. It's probably already hard for your sister that you're just attending as a guest rather than being in the wedding. And don't listen to people who talk nonsense. The marriage is happening and that's that. They've been together for years, your sister is not religious, and there's nothing rebbetzin Jungreis or anyone else can do, unless, as you said, people of the Sicilian persuasion get involved.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 27 2015, 12:12 pm
molokai wrote:
"Better to stay on good terms since her kids will be Jewish." I am troubled whenever I hear this statement from BT's. She is your sister (parent/brother/schoolmate/friend of the family). If the only reason you keep relationships is because people are Jewish, what does that say about the sincerity of your relationships?


Maybe that's a reason for being ultra-flexible in going to the chasuna. I assume this could be the reasoning of rabbanim who are matir it and guide people through these thorny situations.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 27 2015, 12:14 pm
amother wrote:
Another person. OT, but I'm a BT and I find that comment offensive. Why would I have a mentor? I became frum totally on my own, attended a frum school, and never needed a mentor. Why is it assumed that someone mentored you just because you're a BT?


First of all, I didn't know this about your background. If you shared it, my apologies for not remembering. But yeah, I do make that assumption. And guess what, aseh lecha rav is important for EVERYONE! But many BTs have contact with trusted mentors because they need someone who knew them when and now, who has seichel and experience. Again, I think that this is a bracha and an imperative for everyone.

My apologies for being offensive and patronizing. It was the furthest thing from my mind.
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